to think that doctors shouldn't go on strike over pension changes

[starwarrior]

Why shouldn't they just suck it up like the rest of us?

It also seems unlikely that someone who claims to be a barrister doesn't know the difference between a strike and what is proposed. Or indeed to have missed the point quite so spectacularly (wilfully?).

How many do not undertake private work ? Not one that I can think of. From fertility to paediatric's all have their cl

Doctors are not grossly overpaid. The rest of your post sounds suspiciously like a management whine. There are, of course, more managers than beds in the NHS. Perhaps a better avenue for making savings?

herhonesty

"Many of the inefficiencies in the nhs are due to their unwillingness to move to more modern practices"

About half of all NHS consultants do no private work. The rest do some in their own time. Nice try though!

I don't care how highly qualified they are or how much good work they do. Salary, once someone has passed the point of being 'comfortably well off' should not be a massive motivating factor. Doctors are smart enough to earn large wages in other jobs, but they choose medicine because it's a uniquely fulfilling work which carries a very high social status with it.

If the rest of the public sector have to accept changes to their pensions then so should doctors.

Mosman

That depends what you men by private work doesnt it? Almost everyone will have a small amount of private work that is unavoidable eg insurance forms for patients who have had to cancel holidays, other letters.
Not everyone is doing clinics or operations at a private hospital.

I was recently trying to find the name of a paediatrician in my area who could see someone privately- none of the paediatricians that I know could tell me anyone who would do that.

According to Radio 4 the average hospital consultant will get a 6 figure lump sum on retirement and a pension of at least 43k.

I have no problem with doctors having to accept the same changes to their pensions as all other public sector workers and haven't seen anything on this thread which makes a good argument for giving them special consideration.

The paed is my ex boyfriend, I'll pm you his details if you still need to see somebody. He has a clinic for the hypochondriac on a Wednesday afternoon. Should have married him after all

I dont think that they are asking for special consideration fro other public sector workers.

The arguments over public sector pensions are a distraction from the much more serious issue of lack of saving for pensions by individuals and employers in the private sector - huge time bomb.

Bruxeur - it is a strike. Just because all labour hasn't been withdrawn doesn't make it otherwise.

Mosman - was that directed at me? - I can assure you that the people who were looking to see a paediatrician for their child were not hypochondriacs.

I know drs who commute from Germany to work here, flying back and forth the pay is so much better than in the German health service.

The bma dont take official figures as their would be uproar if people really knew what sorts of salaries consultants were taking home - much of this earnt when they are contracted to the nhs. An insurer tells me they have 60000 registered but gets bills from many more who arent registered.

In terms of efficiencies - just as an example, conversion of inpatient to day, follow up ratios, general to local, technicians/nurse practioners etc. We are way way behind other developed health economies.

And no, I'm not an nhs manager.

'The bma dont take official figures as their would be uproar if people really knew what sorts of salaries consultants were taking home - much of this earnt when they are contracted to the nhs'

If it is earnt when not working for the NHS then it isnt salary is it. Salary scales for all NHS employees are publically available.

'An insurer tells me they have 60000 registered but gets bills from many more who arent registered.' - What does that mean?

'In terms of efficiencies - just as an example, conversion of inpatient to day, follow up ratios, general to local, technicians/nurse practioners etc. We are way way behind other developed health economies.'
Again, can you give some specifics, or more detail than a list of a few words.

shagmanfrued

"that is exactly the problem - if other public sector workers have to have changes to their pension doctors should suck it up"

Our pension scheme was renegotiated in 2008. We agreed as the economic argument was persuasive.

Now in 2012 they are renegotiating it again. This time the numbers don't add up and we will be paying far higher contributions than other similarly salaried civil servants/ public sector employees.

This is the inequality we can't stomach. I fully believe we should pay for our pension but don't see why judges, senior civil servant and most importantly MPs shouldn't pay and receive the same as us......

It is the hypocrisy of a government who are spinning frantically how greedy doctors are who haven't touched their own MPs pension scheme that drives me potty.

And for those of you who are worried people who strike don't get paid. As I have said up thread I'm on call on June 21st so I will still be working doing all the essential things that need to be done to preserve life and limb.

herhonesty I'm not sure exactly what you mean by doctors being "think they are utterly untouchable" - I'm sure you have heard of the GMC? An organisation which Doctors have to join, have to pay for, and which is full of 'lay' members and which exists only to protect patients! I know people who have been investigated by the GMC, and there are many doctors who have been, and they would laugh (hollowly) if they heard you thought that - I think they would describe it more like having their lives and livelihood turned upside down, if only temporarily - they are far from untouchable

I think we'd all like some reassurance that if we keel over on strike day, our chances of survival will not be reduced. At the moment it all feels very risky to have a strike, especially as we are seeing A and E departments having major problems once again.

I find it quite shocking that in the 21st century I cannot make an appt to see a GP in the evenings or at the weekend. It's archaic.

hiveofbees - sorry I can see it read that way but that wasn't my intention, I am referring to the parents that bring in children with completely undiagnosable illnesses involving a tummy ache when mum has to go away on business that sort of thing. He sees a lot of those on a Wednesday afternoon.

On the 21st all NHS doctors are doing emergency and urgent work. I dont think there is any reason to worry if you need urgent care.

Of course doctors are entitled to strike for what they beleive in, but I really think they will shoot themeselves in the foot. I don't believe that most people who are not doctors or NHS employees are sympathetic to their cause and it will be damaging to their standing and reputation. Furthermore, if a tragedy occurs which can be blamed on the doctors industrial action it will be a disaster for them.

Most of us have had to accept enforced changes to contractual agreements in our pension and retirement arrangements. In the real world we have to suck it up or find another job.

Many surgeries do evening surgeries during the week on one or more days, and some even do Saturday morning surgeries - maybe you should do some research locally and change your gp if you aren't happy with the service, Aboutlastnight?