to think that doctors shouldn't go on strike over pension changes

[starwarrior]

Why shouldn't they just suck it up like the rest of us?

HmmThinkingabout it, yes I agree with you. I think it's the martyrdom that irritates me. I'm gong to be spending all of the next 4 days working on a work project but it wouldn't even occur to me to worry that I'm not getting paid for it.

Again. It is not a fucking strike. The level of illiteracy on here is staggering sometimes.

I'm a healthcare support worker who is sucking up paying more into her lowly pension to receive less back. And yes I work hard, have degree ( almost two degrees actually) and have three children, a mortgage and whatever else.

The OOH dr sitting across the room on £1000 a day can also suck it up as far as I am concerned.

I'm gong to be spending all of the next 4 days working on a work project but it wouldn't even occur to me to worry that I'm not getting paid for it.

Really Mirry? Perhaps therein lies the root of your bitterness towards those earning more than you :)

Aboutlastnight, £1000 per day? Unlikely.

I don't care whether they earn more or less than me, what I can't stand is the whining and sense of entitlement that some of them express. They really don't seem to understand that they are not special in that other people have jobs that are just as demanding, need a high level of skill, and require long and expensive training.

Bruxeur if it isn't a strike it is definitely refusing to carry out part of their job for which they are contracted and paid to do.

Aboutlastnight - Did you strike earlier in the year? I dont think that doctors are saying that they are any more special than any other NHS employee, just that with different unions the strikes were on different days.

Yes I did strike hive. You make a good point. Doctors have the right to defend their pensions, as we are trying to do.

I get irritated by the 'ooooh we work so hard,' justification though.Doctors are well rewarded financially for their work. Lots of of people work very hard for far less.

I agree with you. Lots of people do work very hard. I think that the level of responsibility is a big thing also in determining wages. I know a lot of band 6 nurses who wont think of applying for a 7 (and 5's who wont go for 6's), and staff grade dr's who have opted to do that because they dont want a consultant level of responsibility.

I do actually think medicine is harder than most jobs on every level.. The only similar jobs would be military jobs senior govt or senior police.. Medicine in hospital anyway taxes you on every level to the extreme of your endurance and though hours have come down shifts are still a lot longer and harder than other health care professional such as nursing staff.. And at every moment,you can be responsible for Several emergencies all unfolding at once, you will be at 5 am of a compulsory night shift and the cardiac arrest bleep will go again, anything from a pregnant woman to someone with asthma who has a cllapsed lung. It is physically and mentally exhausting and you really do it for love of the job not the money.. Hospital money is not that great anyway.

Scotch- its £125 per hour for an ooh dr. That's why some are knackered all the time, some gps work nights etc, on top of working at gp practices, I once worked for ooh and the dr got paid to sleep while the nurse practiniors dealt will the emergencies as they can sign prescriptions etc.

Should they strike? No I don't think they should, the pension for a retired gp is equivalent to 3 nurses working full time in the nhs.

Hmm maybe I need to retrain.... :)

You could retrain, if you fancied.

I really wouldnt want to be a GP. It would be more money (so better pension), but the way of working just doesnt appeal to me at all.

Justcheckingitout, you speak with great authority. Are you a doctor or related to one? have you any other professional work esperience?

I'm not arguing that some hospital doctors don't work extemely hard especially if they are all multi disciplined in the way you describe. But I don't think anyone can say that one job is harder than another, mainly because there's no agreed definition of a 'hard' job.

Oh and sorry am on my phone but whoever said about GPs not believing their luck with the new contract a few yrs back.. Too right , just another example of the govt not having a bloomin clue when it comes to the NHS and nit listening to clinicians .. You'll find that Drs never asked for that contract and had to agree to it as it was being. Interbred anyway.. And now it's ruined OOH care.. But please, blame the people who think they know best , the Govt because it's the most stupid thing they ever did... It was unbelievable at the time and actually compulsorily took away GPs weekends cover.. Totally bizarre but brought in by the govt, not the GPs. The govt haven't got the foggiest.
Anyway all you Dr haterz will be happy now since the Govt has gone out of it's way to make Drs less powerful and more ordinary.. I notice the new generation clock off quite happily at 5 pm and noone wants to do Hospital medicine anymore as it's too hard, they all want to be gps so they can surf and have weekends off, the govt have got what they set out to do, change medicine from a vocation to an ordinary job. I find it pretty tragic though.

But don't GPs take Fridays off for golf practice?

Yes am a hospital Dr am not whining, genuinely just explaining. I don't expect I'll do it forever as it really is tough.

Justcheckingout thanks for explaining. I do genuinely appreciate the work done by hospital doctors at the sharp end. .

I know lots of doctors. I dont know any who play golf, must be moving in the wrong circles

Oh my golly gosh. If my dh...a gp had a fri aftn off he would love it! He wouldn't play golf either.....maybe a gym session or early dinner and drinks etc.......
Back in the real world people, he works damn hard to care for his patients, he doesn't do a four day week, he has two afternoons where he does paperwork etc and home visits and has trainee docs to teach, he had two children to come home and help out with, he isn't going to strike. He would if it were due to all the cutbacks in patient services etc but everyone's pensions are under great aren't they? Hardly worth the strike but good for any doc who does want to, they are entitled to, they work and train damn hard and all the people on here who have so much to say about the too high salaries etc maybe really grateful for a highly skilled person caring for them or their loved ones at times? Surely? It is a unique job and should be compensated for as such. Doctors save lives.

Well that's nice, thanks .. I think Drs can be a bit unpopular thanks to a minority who come over ad a bit arrogant and as for getting appts in GPs surgeries etc well don't get me started on that tho it's often the receptionists who are power mad there!

I think the doctorhaterz have increased. They are at work , they are patients, they are journalists they are everywhere. I'm not paranoid though. No, not me....
But I would like a pension that isn't based on the salary I earned 35 years ago as a newly qualified doc...lets see...about £3,000 I believe.

It's just as well that golf is not obligatory, I am unable to even hit the ball reliably on the rare occassions I have attempted it.
I don't support the "strike". I don't feel underpaid. I don't really care about a cut in my hypothetical pension since I have never had any faith that it would be paid as advertised anyway. I think it will acheive nothing ecept pissing off the public and generating a load of over-booked clinics as we fit everyone in who was cancelled.
I do think that those who compare their/others work to doing 48 hour+ with no sleep, little time to eat, no day off afterwards and constant demands to perform procedures/make decisions that if done incorrectly will result in someone's death perhaps don't quite understand...
No-one works those hours anymore but all doctors of my vintage (q. 2000) and older have done it, many for years, hence I do see why they may feel annoyed - they are also having to cover more and more for juniors who haven't worked enough hours to be competent at procedures/diagnosis. Doctors starting in hospital jobs today do not work terrible hours and do not have the above justification for feeling aggreived.

babybarrister

That seems high, that is over the top of the payscale so only people with additional pay awards or points could earn that even today, let alone years ago. Could it be a slightly selected client group that you are attracting?

Baby barrister is pretty much spot on.

Whilst I support anybody's right to strike, I don't think doctors have a valid argument. They are grossly overpaid - example above is just the tip of the iceberg when you consider how much many consultants earn over and above their nhs wage in private fees as well. They run a closed shop and think they are utterly untouchable. Many of the inefficiencies in the nhs are due to their unwillingness to move to more modern practices - but when you challenge them they'll always hide behind the mask of "dr knows best" . they are bleeding the nhs dry.