WARNING this is a state v private education thread

[icarriedawatermelon2]

AIBU to feel that this is so unfair and that my DS should have the chance to experience all this? AIBU to feel really quite crap and that I have failed him?

To cut a long story short he is at nursery in an amazing prep school. He is there because it is on our door step and the nursery package was the best around in terms of flexible hours, extras etc. Anyway thats not the issue.

The issue is I have seen just how much is available to the children there but more importantly the amazing care of all the students, small classes, amazing setting, child centered learning, freedom to climb trees, etc.

We would be killing ourselves to send our children there :(
Our local state school has a lovely head, but is full to bursting, no space outside etc etc lots of heart there but you just can't compare the two schools.

My DC are every bit worth the best IMO! It makes me MAD that we can't afford it :(

Ok rant over....feel better for getting it out.

The reason I'm annoyed is because of statements that imply that the only sort of education that will allow a child to reach their best or where they will be surrounded by children / parents / teachers who will motivate them to do that must be a private education.

I'm really not anti private schools at all, but I do resent some of the inferences on this thread that if you have chosen the state system you are in some way letting your child down or failing to provide them with the "best". My son's teacher knows him very, very well and he is also allowed to play out in the rain incidentally!!

I'm not quite sure what response you
are looking for to be honest.

The overwhelming majority of kids in this country are educated at state school
so if you are expecting sympathy for having to use state schools, well you won't find it here.

If it's that important to you - you could sell sell your house and move in with relatives to enable you to fund the fees. But then
you might find yourself comparing your holidays to the other families, they have culturally enriching holidays to Egypt but you can only afford Southend because you are crippling yourself to pay the school fees. "It's not fair" I hear you cry. Well if fairness matters to you that much you could always use the local state schools...

What's wrong with what the op said, wouldn't we all like small class sizes and great facilities, beautiful grounds and surroundings for every child rather than just the few?

I dunno

It's all very well bashing the OP, and I know of course that there is a bit of preciousness there.

But aren't we all a bit precious when it comes to wanting the best for our infants? Some of it is vaguely nutty stuff, like wanting the buggy to end all buggies, but you can't knock someone for wanting a better education for their DCs.

It's not as though the OP came on the thread to say 'I'm privately educating my DCs and look, I am soo much better than you-who-who.' She came on to say that this is something she would dearly like to do for her DC but she simply can't afford it.

My suggestion is, OP, and at the risk of sounding like Xenia, either get a better paid job or put it out of your mind. If it can't be fixed then there's no point in fretting.

I've not read all the posts op, but I don't need to because I have no doubt what they contain. Everyone want the best for their kids, obviously. I think the only thing you could do now is ask the school for a discount or a bursary. There's nowt to lose by asking. But YANBU.

I read the OP as more of a commentary on the gulf between some private schools and some state schools. For example, our local primary schools have no playing fields at all whereas my sons' prep has two sets of playing fields. I think that all primary age children would benefit from access to school playing fields - I am fortunate enough to be able to choose a school that allows this, others can't.

Some state schools tick all the boxes for most parents and if you live by one that is great, if you don't then I can understand if it is frustrating not to have a choice.

The OP thinks the private school is better than the local primary - this may well be correct in this case - and so is a bit fed up that she has to choose her less preferred option.

I have the money to send my children to private school. I won't when it comes round because a) it is morally bankrupt to be able to pay for getter education and b) I want my kids to experience as wide a social group as possible. It's what makes life interesting and people more varied human beings.

I'm sending our baby to local Surestart centre and making a donation towards the library services there instead of paying for expensive pre school fees.

I am the daughter of a single mum who has built a successful career and attended a top five uni...all from a state school and a council house. Indeed many of the privately educated people I attended uni with were extremely rude and sneery. Some thought it appropriate to ask me questions such as how much heroin single parent's benefit bought and mock me for the fact I had to work. I blame poor education and bad moral values from their parents for their outrageous behaviour....

My kids will get opportunities I didn't - to travel, eat in restaurants regularly, see plays etc. However, giving them the belief that if you are richer you deserve better basic human necessities such as education and healthcare is not a lesson I think is a valuable one. It basically teaches them that wealth makes you more important. Pretty awful really!

Some things to remember

1. A very small % of children go to private school, and they don't all end up bring CEOs or cabinet members.
2. The cost of private school isn't just the fees - it's the uniforms, trips, extra activities etc. They are not included in the basic cost. So if you can just about afford the fees, your dc would be left out of a lot of those extras.
3. If you use state school you can use the money you save for extra activities, trips, holidays etc.

Rowanhart I sort of agree and we sent ours to state primary and dd to a top 100 London Comp. After two years we moved her because of the wide variety of people she was mixing with - it isn't always positive and it doesn't always enhance education - persistent interruption, assaults, intimidation and other dysfunctional behaviour. Combined with a geography department that might as well not have existed and at least half a department of incompetent maths teachers it wasn't worth it any more and we could afford to move her. London, I appreciate is a microcosm, but what is going on in state education isn't acceptable and the government (governments for the last 30 odd years actually) need urgently to raise the game.

There is nothing at all wanting the best for one's children and within one's means they must be provided with that. There were lots of children at dd's comp whose parents didn't have a lot of money but who had aspiration for their dc and who had fantastic children. Likewise there were a lot of parents who didn't care less and whose 11/12 year olds were out on the streets at 10 o'clock at night - not the sort of children I want my child influenced by or living in fear of and the school's hands seemed pretty tied in respect of consequences for exceptionally bad behaviour.

In the words of Xenia you need to work harder

It is OK to have a rant - but life is unfair and always will be.

YANBU. I think there would be something much more worrying if you didn't want the best available for your child.

I feel the same about secondary school for my ds2, I'd love to be able to afford to send him private, but it's not going to happen. We have a very good comp as the alternative, but even with its OFSTED outstanding, it still has its issues, and Id go private in a heartbeat if we could. That doesn't mean that I can't see that other families are in a much worse situation with schools they have available, obviously I can and I feel luckier than many, but my responsibility is to my children not everyone else's.

Xenia is right for once! Instead of saying it is unfair you need to say ' what can I do'- or more realistically 'what I should have done was......'
It is all a bit late once the DC is school age - it needed planning before birth.

I do understand how you feel and it could well be worth asking about a bursary. Many staff at private schools, particularly heads are of the opinion that it really is a sad and undesirable thing to have to go toa state school. I'm not saying they're right but it might help your case.

I chose to teach in a private school so that my children could go there almost for free. For me it is not about the education. I went to a satisfactory comprehensive and have 4 As at A level. However, in my experience, it is all the extras that private schools have that make them worth striving for.

My class of 10 year olds are no better off educationally than the class of 10 year olds in the lovely village school down the road. But theydo get specialist sports coaching every day, acres of fields and woods to play in, 2 astroturf pitches, a swimming pool, gym and studio, freedom to climb trees, have snowball fights and play in the rain, excellent support for SEN, specialist art, drama, music and DT, way too much time off curriculum for special events and visits and, what i value the most for my children, the idea that lessons are not the only or even the most important part of education.

So i don't think it is as simple as saying that people who choose private are buying a better education. The teachers are the same as in any school, sometimes not as good! It's the other stuff that they are paying for and i don't see anything wrong in the OP wanting that for her child

And realistically at today's costs for two London day schools it takes £33,000 of post tax income for the fees alone, excluding school buses, lunches, trips and general expenses. That's £2,750 pcm before you start go.

Actually, you are also paying for contacts and confidence.

All children should have an education equal in quality.

But we live in a capitalist system so wealth buys advantage and privilege.

Fight and vote to change it.

WTF is this banging on about climbing trees at private school bollocks?

You want your kids to climb trees, take them to a park, no?

Hear hear Hullygully....

It's the idea that because I refuse to send my kids to private school even though I could afford it, I don't want the best for them that I object to the most...

Rowanhart
^Hear hear Hullygully....

It's the idea that because I refuse to send my kids to private school even though I could afford it, I don't want the best for them that I object to the most...^

Do you mind if I ask whether or not you're living in a nice area with good schools? Unless you're living in a rough area with poor schools, then you are still selecting on wealth. That's because you're rich enough to buy a nice house in a nice area with good schools. That's no different to buying private education.

Hullygully

All children should have an education equal in quality.

All children are different, so identical education would be bad for them. We can already see that in the state system we have which fails the children at both ends of the scale. If you fit the requirements - stable background, average intelligence, no emotional issues - you're fine. Fall outside that box, though, and you'll struggle

Reverse it Hullygully - people must have freedom to chose but the quality of what they are chosing needs to improve exponentially. Every child should have the opportunity to study three separate sciences, a modern foreign language and a classical language. Every teacher should be supported to deliver at least a grade 2 lesson, procedures to remove mediocre and poor teachers need to be speededup, procedures to remove the dysfunctional and downright nutty kids from the class need to be speeded up, specialist schools for those who are beyond the ken of mainstream staff need to be funded. When that happens parents wills top chosing to educate privately and the the independent sector with start to contract. Those with the money support it because actually it is better than the state system, it is more effective, the communication with families is better and problems are quickly sorted out.

I didn't say identical, I said equal.

Equal in quality doesn't mean identical in substance.

Btw.

Is it unfair that people with money can buy stuff that people with less money can't?

Er, I guess so. But you should be used to it by now. So YAB a bit U to be so suddenly shocked to realise that this is how the world works.

I'm still grappling with the idea that the last government's initiatives on health and safety regulations and better employment protection for working people were specifically designed to spite parents who wanted to send their children to school.

I think the proportion of children who attend private school has remained constant at about 7% for several years.

Anyway, Hully is right. We need a good education system for everyone. Look at Finland, where there is no selection, no private sector and they get amongst the best results in the world on the PISA system.

Hullygully

^I didn't say identical, I said equal.

Equal in quality doesn't mean identical in substance.

Btw.^

That ideal, though, is unachievable in a top-down system. You can't legislate to create that equal quality. Where do you even begin when you have children with such different needs?