to give dd my blessing to walk out of her English lesson on Monday?

[whysogrumpy]

Before I explain I should say that she, along with my other dc, is pretty much a model pupil - never been in trouble before, but both she and I are at the end of our tethers with this situation.

She is in Year 8 and in a mixed ability class , not a policy I agree with and not one taken up by any of the other subjects in her school, but, hey...
DD is a strong level 6 yet throughout the year has been surrounded by pupils who have never read a book and can barely spell their own names - her words, not mine.

Anyway, over the last few weeks the class have been put into groups by the teacher and told to write a play. They will perform it and be assessed on their performances. DD has had a pretty miserable time since this task was set, she doesn;t get on with any of the kids she has been placed with and tells me that she has been made to do all he work. She has basically written the entire script while they have sat there and yet they will now walk away with top levels thanks to dd .

That is not the worst of it though. DD is pretty bookish and not really one for acting. She hates getting up in front of the class doing stuff like this, plus she feels that, as she has written the thing, she should be able to take a minor role. Anyway, the other kids in her group have refused to take the main role as well and have told dd she needs to do it. The teacher has backed them up and told dd that she needs to take the lead role to get a level 6/7 .

So these little shits who have sat there doing nothing for three weeks have now had their behaviour condoned by the teacher, who seems to be using dd to get some work out of some very difficult pupils. DD was in tears over it on Wednesday night so I phoned the teacher. I couldn't believe what I was told. Apparantly this sort of task is just as important as the essay/story/poem writing that dd excells at . Does she want to be an actress? No, yet she must go through this ridiculous task or, according to the teacher, she will be at risk of failing her GCSEs!!! She's 13 ffs, in year 8! Pissing around doing drama activities with a bunch of kids who can't write - how is that helping her to improve her level?

The teacher ended by saying dd must perform, in the lead role, on Monday. When I told dd she said she'd walk out if forced to go through with this. AIBU to tell her to go for it?

We moved to North America and at school here they have a very strong focus on spoken skills, and I think it is excellent. Too many people seem to have just decided that they are no good at any sort of public speaking, and it really holds you back if you can't hold your own in meetings or make presentations (to any audience, it's a bit naive to assume that once you are free of the 'little shits' at school you won't encounter bigger ones later in life - the worst hecklers I've ever heard were surgeons).

They also do lots of group work (this is in primary), and have found that positive too. Last year ds got a commendation in his report about how much he supported the child he was working with, so in my experience this sort of thing is noticed. My dd was initially reluctant, and her grades did go down, but she has learned to work independently and be much less reliant on the teachers instructions.

I can see why with an upset dd the OP isn't happy, but for a 13 year old why does it really matter if for one activity the mark isn't fantastic? I really think that better advice would have been to to just do her best and be glad that the activity is over.

YANBU.
However I wouldn't advise walking out. I would take it up to a higher level and ring the Head of Year first, and if you get no joy, the Head.
I think they should be set for English in the first place by that age.

get down there and confront the teachers. YANBU.
if the others in her group need extra help , then surely that should come from the teaching staff.
People are saying that we all have to do things we don't like......does this also apply to the slacker pupils????
Sick day if no joy from school

I think she has probably brought some of this on herself. And bare in mind this happens at GCSE, A Level and degree level so she has to get used to different people and their work practices.

If she is so much farther ahead than the others in her group, I suspect she has written something that is far above their understanding / ability.

One of those 'little shits' might be the next Andrea Dunbar.

I would be inclined to see what mark she received and then make a fuss if your fear that she gets a whole-group low mark is realised.

However, I suspect that seeing as the teacher is predicting her a 6/7 (in Year 8) then the teacher is asking her to take a lead so as to show off her skills in order to get that mark, and knows that the others aren't able to get those marks. So she would gain a high mark where the others wouldn't.

Structured group work improves social and communication skills which is increasingly lacking in young people today. A lot goes on behind the scenes in setting it up and managing it that appears invisible to those who don't know it. If it involved chucking a load of random people together to 'sink or swim' then I agree that it's damaging, but we don't know if that's what has happened here.

We only have the OP's version of the DD's version of events, which I suspect are perhaps not entirely objective.

So she is in the wrong sashh! She has not only written the whole thing but she it to blame for writing something they don't understand! In that case they should have got off their backsides and made a contribution!

I don't think that I would be objective if my DC was in a mixed ability set where they were well above the ability of the rest of the group and has written and is now acting and is going to get a good mark for those who have taken no interest!
I can well believe OP's version and think she is getting a hard time. The group ought to be interviewed and asked exactly what it was that they contributed. A writer ought to be able to sit back and let the rest have a turn with the acting.

I think that:

The teacher IBU to insist she take the lead role (although due to the teachers knowledge of the abilities of the group, she is probably right in saying that to get a good mark she'll need to take it) YABU to take umbrage at the fact that the teacher has given your daughter what appears to be a correct assessment of the situation.

YABU to think that it's ok for your daughter to walk out of what IS an important aspect of English. And YAB exceptionally U to call the others in her group 'little shits'. If your daughter has issues with working with people she 'doesn't like' then she will struggle in the workplace.

It sounds like she has been added to this group to help her with aspects that she doesn't feel comfortable with - working with others and public speaking. Surely thats the entire point of school - to help us learn skills that we didn't have before?

I don't think that I would be objective if my DC was in a mixed ability set where they were well above the ability of the rest of the group and has written and is now acting and is going to get a good mark for those who have taken no interest!

Two things to say here:

1. We don't know if this is what's happening. There is a difference between group task and group mark. We should wait and see before we assume it's a group mark.
2. The OP is clearly subjective (which is fine - not fine to be rude about other children but fine to be subjective) and it's therefore only reasonable that we bear this in mind when weighing up her version of the situation.

It would be nice to think that this was why she was chosen, JeezyPeeps, but I doubt it. I would say that the teacher knew they were a group who would do nothing and so put the DD in to get a result and she can then sit back and to all appearances they look engaged and productive BUT in reality this is not the case. I would definitely take to Head of Year.

YABU

1. In working life being able to work with other people (who may be different ability to you) is an important skill. Managing people, influencing the group, distributing the workload (ie not doing all the playwriting work herself) are skills your daughter needs.
2. You need to stretch yourself in life and try the things you're not good at (like speaking in front of an audience).

I find your attitude a bit shocking with respect to how you speak about the other children. People are different and we need to work with them. Maybe its because where I live (Scandinavia) there is no division of students by ability. So maybe they develop into adults who are not so condescending about others, who are used to working with thick little shits all through school life

I am astounded that if you send your DC to a poor school with disaffected pupils you are supposed to shut up and say that it is good for them!
I wouldn't send mine to a comprehensive where they were not setting for core subjects.

well then exotic fruits, isn't it lovely that you have the choice. You should be grateful for that, rather than making it seem that parent's that do are somehow failing their children. Some people don't have the option.

I'm no believer in comprehensive education, but actually this sort of thing happens at selective schools as well. And as many posters have commented, it happens in life.

Lack of effort is not something restricted to children with little or no academic ability. Only this week I had to handle a case that had been abandoned by a colleague (who is perfectly bright and has spent the years from 4-27 in full-time education).

If you look at it from the other children's perspective, they will get better grades if your DD does the work. So naturally they encourage her to do it all. There might be an undercurrent of bullying or there might not. Who knows?

OP YABU (regretfully). You need to be supporting the school in most issues, even if as here you don't agree with how they are doing things. To do anything else risks alienating your DD from the school.

If you want to complain to the Head of Year about the lack of setting in English, then do it. But for God's sake don't complain to the Head of Year because your DD has been asked to do something that forms part of the English Curriculum.

If (and this doesn't appear to be certain) she gets a lower overall mark as a result of the group that she is in, then you could certainly ask the teacher to bump her mark as a result of the disproportionate amount of work that she put in. But as levels are decided on whether the work meets certain criteria rather than effort put in, if she hasn't demonstrated in her performance that she meets the level 6 or 7 criteria for speaking and listening because she doesn't actually say enough, then the teacher won't be able to award it.

"So your DD, whilst I completely empathise with her emotional reaction to her treatment, can either walk out of class/stay off and let it affect her grades and blame the teacher and her 'team mates' for the result. Or she can acknowledge how angry and upset she is but then do her best to prepare for and give the presentation to make sure she gets the marks she deserves."

SpiritedWolf's post is definitely the way to go, despite how much I hate assessed group work.

I also think that the reason the less able pupils are refusing to work is that this is probably their default coping reaction - avoid embarrassment and confusion by fighting the work - I know my son does this. I can see that this would be manageable in a very well moderated group situation. However, in a 'leave them to it, group work teaches so much (because it says so in the syllabus), its absolutely just like real life!!!' situation, it would be horrendous.

Dd was in a very similar situation recently. She is top of her class for this subject, but the teacher asked that for the next project she go in a group with a girl with learning difficulties who refuses to work, and so dd ended up with two girls who basically weren't going to do any work at all. Not blaming the girl with Ld, but I do think maybe her TA support needs to be improved if 'even the teachers can't make her work'.

Anyway, Dd worked her butt off, doing 80% of the work, and then presenting the thing. It never crossed my mind to tell dd to walk out of the lesson! Instead, she really put the effort in, and I was really proud of her, and she was proud of herself too. Though, if this happens again, dd will tell the teacher she doesnt what to work with students who won't work. And I will back her up fully on that.

Regarding the whole drama thing, surely your dd has to learn performance as part of drama anyway? Dd hs to work really hard on acting for her drama sats grade, even though she doesnt want to be an actress neither. It's not something you can really avoid altogether at school, so it's prob best to just get on with it.

I've not read the whole thread but I don't think you should back her to walk out.
Speaking is a part of the English GCSE, so it's something she is going to have to get used to doing.
My ds is year 9 and has so far done a couple of his speaking parts. One was as a group and another he had to write a persuasive piece himsel, learn it off by heart and stand infront of the class on his own and say it.
So, as others have said, she needs to push herself and get used to the idea that she will have to do this.

I would speak to the Head. I would want the teacher to make it clear who had done the work. The others need to be marked down for lack of work, and DD marked up for doing all the work. They aren't teaching teamwork and collaboration - just lazy ass behaviour. You should be proud of your DD for carrying this bunch of lazy students.

Sadly, It comes under the 'shit happens' header for your DD though. She needs to view it as her project for her mark. Walking out will cause a shit storm. She will take away from this that as a team, you need to push so that the weaker ones don't sink the project. Stronger ones need to take a lead role - its not always comfortable though, but would she rather take a back seat and have nothing to show for three weeks 'teaching'? Sadly life and work os like this. Slackasses glide through and get the rewards. Hard workers don't always get their rewards. Its an early lesson to learn though.

I do feel for her though.

When I was at college we had a 'team' project that was put up in the end of year show. I did all the bloody work - it was my concept and mostly my execution and I didn't even get my name on it!

A bit back in the thread but Marzipananimal I dd my GCSEs 10 years ago and English definately had a speaking and listening element. I can't remember off hand but I think it was observation in a group discussion and I certainly remember a 1-2-1 with the teacher. It's definately written as part of the grade on my GCSE results.

I had it happen to me at university. Didn't matter much in the end: doing the presentation part helped to confirm my First, getting a free ride on my writing skills wasn't enough to give any of the others a First.

If your dd is aiming for a high mark in English, then presentation skills are part of that (and Michael Gove said only the other day that the Government is looking to put more emphasis in teaching this at schools). This means having to stand up in front of people and speaking even if you feel uncomfortable. The teacher will have picked her because she senses that she needs to develop the skills that lead to higher marks- picking the bright child to do something harder is a form of setting.

If I can't choose I would make a fuss. You are all putting wonderful motives on it, which I would agree with. - I just rather cynically think that she is being used to raise the standard of very low performing pupils.
I think that any teacher would mix the groups. You firstly look at the DCs that you don't want working together and make sure they are apart, then you look at the best and make sure every group has some. It seems to me that the DD is the only one who is doing anything- she is bound to be fed up. Of course it is good for her to speak but is equally good for the rest.
My nephew was in a similar position, a good actor (National Youth Theatre) but very shy and sensitive - he found it very upsetting.

The irony is- if your daughter walks out or refuses to do the assignment, she will fail it. As much as any other child who didn't pull their weight- and as much as you assert that she's clever, hard working, did more than her fair share etc etc- it won't look like that to anyone else.

She really has no choice, she would be silly to walk out.

Bingo, Aliportico.

It's true that DD is going to be assessed on speaking and listening for her GCSE, and this is non-negotiable. So she's going to have to learn to cope with her dislike of it. As such, she needs practice now, and her having done the writing work doesn't change that. However, it sounds like the play doesn't allow all the pupils to take an equal part in speaking and listening practice- perhaps this is partially the teacher's fault for not ensuring something more balanced was written, I don't know. But what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. If DD having done the writing doesn't mean she gets a pass on acting, the other children not having done any writing don't get a pass on acting either. The arguments about her not getting to choose not to act apply every bit as much to the other pupils.

I think it would probably have been a good idea if OP had raised this to the teacher before now, but hindsight is a wonderful thing. I'd probably keep her off on Monday- if she's that upset and stressed it's legitimate- then try and talk to the teacher the same day.