to give dd my blessing to walk out of her English lesson on Monday?

[whysogrumpy]

Before I explain I should say that she, along with my other dc, is pretty much a model pupil - never been in trouble before, but both she and I are at the end of our tethers with this situation.

She is in Year 8 and in a mixed ability class , not a policy I agree with and not one taken up by any of the other subjects in her school, but, hey...
DD is a strong level 6 yet throughout the year has been surrounded by pupils who have never read a book and can barely spell their own names - her words, not mine.

Anyway, over the last few weeks the class have been put into groups by the teacher and told to write a play. They will perform it and be assessed on their performances. DD has had a pretty miserable time since this task was set, she doesn;t get on with any of the kids she has been placed with and tells me that she has been made to do all he work. She has basically written the entire script while they have sat there and yet they will now walk away with top levels thanks to dd .

That is not the worst of it though. DD is pretty bookish and not really one for acting. She hates getting up in front of the class doing stuff like this, plus she feels that, as she has written the thing, she should be able to take a minor role. Anyway, the other kids in her group have refused to take the main role as well and have told dd she needs to do it. The teacher has backed them up and told dd that she needs to take the lead role to get a level 6/7 .

So these little shits who have sat there doing nothing for three weeks have now had their behaviour condoned by the teacher, who seems to be using dd to get some work out of some very difficult pupils. DD was in tears over it on Wednesday night so I phoned the teacher. I couldn't believe what I was told. Apparantly this sort of task is just as important as the essay/story/poem writing that dd excells at . Does she want to be an actress? No, yet she must go through this ridiculous task or, according to the teacher, she will be at risk of failing her GCSEs!!! She's 13 ffs, in year 8! Pissing around doing drama activities with a bunch of kids who can't write - how is that helping her to improve her level?

The teacher ended by saying dd must perform, in the lead role, on Monday. When I told dd she said she'd walk out if forced to go through with this. AIBU to tell her to go for it?

YABU.

The ability to speak/advocate/perform confidently in front of others is a hugely important skill in many work environments.

It's also something that your daughter appears not to be very good at. It can be learned, so why not encourage your daughter to improve in one of her weaker areas?

TBH, walking out will come across as a terribly immature response and will get your DD nowhere. What is she going to do at university/work when asked to give presentations, speak up in meetings? It is better that she acquires the skill now than struggles later.

Your DD needs to forget the other kids and do the best that she can.

Sometimes in life you have to do things you hate and sometimes carrying freeloaders is unavoidable.

You suck it up and focus on what you want. In this case the good grade.

Welcome to the world.

Hmm, agree with you that it does seem massively unfair. She sounds like me. Loves and does well at the writing, but hates the drama and acting bit.
So I can see where you're coming from. I'd have been mightily hacked off if I'd have written the play at school while everyone sat on their backside, and THEN they expected me to do the acting bit as well.
I wouldn't have been able to think of anything worse, being really shy at school.
HOWEVER, if it's going to affect her grades if she doesn't do it, then I don't see what walking out and effectively going on strike is going to achieve?
If she has to do it, then she has to do it. She has to learn she can't just walk out on things that she doesn't want to do.
What lesson would that teach?! There's some things in life that you just have to do. This, if it's part of her course, is just one of those things.

I am always amazed by people who think that being forced to stand up in front of a hostile audience and perform is somehow teaching public speaking or drama. It is not how I would go about helping a student develop their confidence.

The teacher sounds rubbish. I hope your dd gets in a better class next year.

Yabvu and I hope you ensure she goes through with it rather than be off school

I think if one of my DCs, who had always seemed a model student before, was so distressed over a task they were in tears and threatening to walk out, then I might keep them off and try and work to support them in overcoming the challenges they faced. I would be particularly concerned in this situation, because from what you've described, the bit your daughter has the most challenges over (acting) she has received no support over, it doesn't sound like they've even rehearsed. And if she does do it badly, particularly with an unsupportive cohort, that could make her even more nervous about doing it in the future.

But your reasoning for keeping her off - that the others are freeloading on her work (they aren't if the teacher has her wits about her); and that acting isn't a beneficial part of the curriculum (it's a massively useful skill to have in almost all professions) are v. U.

If you keep her off you should turn it into something she can learn something useful from (e.g. How to handle unsupportive environments and without wrecking your own chances of success). Not let it simply be support for ducking out of an unpleasant situation.

I think if you had written your op in a less aggressive snobby and judgy way, I might've had more sympathy for your dd op

YADNBU. 'Collab' efforts are usually the work of one or two in those situations and I feel very sorry for them as their grades are affected.

I'm feeling particularly sore on this point as DP has spent the past 6 weeks working his fucking arse off on a 'collab' piece which counts for 30% of his final grade (which will decide whether he can do the harder/more challenging mathematically degree next year as opposed to the normal degree), he got together with the other three to put the work together and they had done nothing. Come to the presentation and he had to present the entire thing. They have now all got passing grades and his grade is lower than it should be based on the past years work because they couldn't be arsed to do any work and he didn't have the time to make up for the work they didn't want to do Individual efforts were 'considered' but team work made up most of the mark. A bunch of bollocks.

Whilst I think she should try her best and push her boundaries (RE the acting), there is a small part of me cheering her on for standing up to it as it is bullshit. But unfortunately it is the way of the world and we all have to put up with it at some bloody point :(

FWIW, DP and I don't remember doing any group work like this at GCSE that counted towards our GCSE grades, we did ours 7 years ago We did in our A Levels though, both in debate situations (in subjects where debate was most of the grade) where our peers, surprise surprise, just turned up on the day and still got a halfway decent mark due to our own efforts!

"Is it not good preparation for real life where everyone's precious little darlings may have to interact within a group containing people from different walks of life?"

don't they have to get on with her?

they have chosen, from the sounds of things, to let her write it, and then present it. what are they learning?

I agree that the OP should not let her DD bunk off school. but i think the attitude towards this is unduly unsympathetic to a young teenager being placed in a difficult situation.

Overall it doesn't sound fair - her doing all the work and then having to do the lead part as well - not really a group effort.

However, sometimes we all have to do things to take us out of our comfort zone. Taking the lead roll could be akin to doing a presentation in the workplace that you don't really want to do. In school you're getting a bad grade, but don't perform in work & you could lose your job! Harsh, but true in this climate.

I certainly feel for her - I used to hate public speaking but, having had to do it as part of my job, it now comes with ease.

Maybe now is the time to give her the confidence and reassurance to complete the task. She is nervous and needs you to tell her that she has the ability to do well, not make her more upset about the whole episode.

Wishing her the very best of luck!

I can't help wondering why, if it's agreed by most to be so important for the OP's dd to take the lead role and prove she can do this, is it not also important for the other children involved? Surely they should be given the opportunity to show what they can do? And if the teacher will definitely be aware that the OP's dd has already put in a disproportionate amount of effort, shouldn't the teacher be making sure that the other children get a chance to maximise their levels as well?

Give the OP a break.

Of course her DD doesn't want to do it, I would imagine she is thinking why the fuck should I, the rest of them have done bugger all, so why should I have to take the lead again. She's 13 for gods sake.

I remember being at school and put in groups with a bunch of gobshites who didn't want to be there or do any work.
My standard grade Maths and art classes were particularly awful, disruptive pupils & teachers unable to control them.

In fact i refused to go to maths and did the work on my own in the library as the class was so badly behaved I was unable to work in it, I needed to concentrate as have difficulties with Maths.

Thankfully the majority of the wasters left in 4th year after standard grades, the people that stayed till 6th year did actually want to be there.

If I was the OP's daughter I would just absolutely refuse to do the lead role, make it clear that I will do one of the other parts, and just perform that.

Well from my point of view I only 'care' about the OPs daughter because she is the one being discussed.

The teacher would have to be a complete numpty to not realise the others a feeeloading and mark them accordingly. That will be their lesson.

IMO as the smart kid, the teacher knows. They know you are doing all the work and carrying dead weight also IMO I got the marks I expected because of it. I would wait and see what sort of mark my DD got for her work before kicking off.

Life isn't fair, it isn't ever going to be fair, you either play the game or you get spat out. It's not nice but school is good practice.

I can empathise with the situation - I too prefer to work at something in my own time and find 'performing' for others stressful.

Its perfectly possible as a parent to do both of the following:

Firstly, acknowledging that she feels that she has been treated unfairly by her peers and teacher. She feels that she has done most of the first stage of the task and resents being forced to do most of the second stage. Genuinely acknowledging the unfairness of this is honest and respects her perspective. Its also important to acknowledge that performing in front of others can be difficult and stressful. Again this validates her feelings.

Secondly, providing a different perspective on the situation. Her teacher may well be aware that she is the most able member of her group. Insisting that she does take the lead role gives your daughter the most opportunity to display her abilities and earn the topmost marks. If it is an area that her self-confidence is lacking in then it gives her a valuable opportunity to strengthen herself in this area. If the teacher has not given her adequate support to do well in this role, then its something you and your DD can work together on over the weekend (learning the part, giving her a chance to master speaking in front of others).

I don't approve of chucking people who are underconfident in at the deep end and hoping they'll figure out how to swim on their own - so can understand why your daughter is uncomfortable. Ideally, she would have been able to work at this 'speaking in public' thing at her own pace, with proper guidence. But it is the situation she is faced with now and you as her parent can give her some of the support and encouragement she requires.

Part of this is helping her understand that it's ok if this is something that doesn't come easily to her, and that she doesn't excel in first time around. She can try her best and improve at these skills over time.

I was an intelligent and reasonably able student at school. But there were things I struggled with - revising, organising my time, confidence and performing in front of others. Sometimes, being good at other stuff makes it hard for teachers to see that you need support in these areas, or makes it difficult to ask for help.

I've taken a more generous explanation for the teacher's seemingly unfair actions than some others on this thread. I think it is good to assume people are generally trying to do the right thing. However, if it is the case that she isn't a good teacher and is using your daughter as a TA, then there is a way of framing this too:

At school, some of my able friends had a maths teacher that they reguarly complained about. He reportedly couldn't manage the more distruptive pupils and the class spent much of its time in a disarray. My friends (quiet and studious types :) ) felt this impacted on their learning - and indeed they were right. However, whilst some of them were content to blame this teacher for less than expected performance, others made sure they worked hard with their textbooks/each other/parents outside of class to achieve what they were capable of despite their teacher's poor class management and their classmates' rudeness.

My point is that they took responsibility for their own learning, and realised it was they, and not their teacher/classmates who would ultimately decide their grades. Obviously it would have been better for them all to have a better classroom environment, but they worked around this less than ideal situation and still got top marks. Meanwhile those moaning about the teacher/class who expected to be passive recipients of 'an education' probably did less well than they would have liked and were capable of.

So your DD, whilst I completely empathise with her emotional reaction to her treatment, can either walk out of class/stay off and let it affect her grades and blame the teacher and her 'team mates' for the result. Or she can acknowledge how angry and upset she is but then do her best to prepare for and give the presentation to make sure she gets the marks she deserves.

It wouldn't be unreasonable for you/her to make sure the teacher is aware of how much of the work she did on the writing side of things (though I'd keep personal opinions about the other students out of it). But I do think she would be cutting off her nose to spite her face if she walked out/otherwise refused to participate. Of course, she can choose to do this, but I think you should make sure that she understands that her school are unlikely to take away the message from her actions that she would like them to.

I'm choosing to ignore the slights you've made on her classmates. I think they are unpleasant and unnecessary. I do understand though that she may feel intimidated by her peers, and annoyed at them for the way they have treated her.

Sorry for the long post. Basically, I think you should validate how she feels about the situation but encourage her to proceed to the best of her abilities in spite of the unfairness (percieved or real) for her own benefit. I also wonder how much of this is to do with her own anxiety about performing, and that she should be helped to feel more confident about this over the weekend whilst reminding her that it is a skill which she can improve at and that she doesn't have to be perfect at everything first time (she could be putting a lot of pressure on herself, and she's probably anxious about the reaction of those watching if she feels unpopular).

But yes, performing in front of others is difficult. I wouldn't want to be in her shoes. Good luck.

I'm a former English teacher but I'm also the mother of an articulate, literate DD who would rather have died in Y8 than do what your DD is about to do.

My DD is now 19 and has learned that collaborative work and the ability to speak up, make a collaboration work whatever it takes and shine despite the inability of the rest of the group, is extremely important in the university course/career she has chosen.

Your DD should approach this task as something she has to do with good grace. Not doing it will not materially affect her GCSE prospects - nothing in Y8 really does - but she has done the majority of the work and she should claim it as her own by presenting it well.

She has maybe been dealt with unfairly. The chances are that she will not be with that particular grouping for very much longer. Her best course of action is to make a howling success of the task. If that makes others look good as well then so be it.

A no child left behind policy does not work.

It means that kids that excel are dragged back, or feel self conscious about appearing better than their peers.

However controversial it might be, teaching kids to the level they are at and trying to get them to the best they can is the approach that should be being used. And that does involve setting or streamlining at some point.

As a child I frequently spent more time teaching other kids rather than being taught. Its frustrating and does nothing for motivation. I was ashamed of it at times and it killed my confidence.

I didn't want to speak out in class precisely because of that reason. I didn't want to perform in front of others, because I wasn't comfortable in showing what I did know in case that made me a target or someone who ended up doing all the work for everyone else.

If we want this country to have people capable of pushing the boundaries, it starts here. Working with others of different ability has its place, but there are other subject you can do that and it not be as detrimental to brighter kids. If you have a balance of that, you have a situation where kids can mix sometimes, and also feel more comfortable at other times being with other kids on a similar level.

I really feel that English and Maths are the two subjects where working with people of a similar level is better for everyone - for those who are weaker to be able to admit it, and for those for are stronger to be able to push themselves without being held back. How on earth a teacher can teach to a full range of abilities is completely beyond me.

I haven't read all of this thread so forgive me if I'm repeating something that someone has already said. Collaborative work is actually not beneficial to younger learners - it only becomes successful when students are mature and have a good sense of their own learning style, and an understanding of their strengths and limitations. I had this from a learning skills tutor in higher education, and he was telling me that collaborative learning is not good for traditional 18-21 year old undergraduates. So god only knows what the effect is for a 13 year old.

Sorry all, it's too late for a bun fight, I only PM atruthuniversallyrecognised because I thought the following was a bit much and that the strike through made it even more condescending. "To be honest, I think you (the OP) sound interfering and quite bonkers"

I felt that a teacher who fails to understand that group work is a real pita to many children required a little on the job training.

I find it off your daughter doesn't like acting, you certainly seem to have a talent for creating a drama.

Working collaboratively is a life skill, as is getting on with people we wouldn't consider a close friend.

The message that if you don't want to do something or you find it hard it is okay to flounce out of the class.

If 'the little shits who can't read or write' did what you recommend your daughter does you'd be on here shitting a kitten accusing them of ruining your daughter's education.

There is more to life than being bookish. If your DD had a problem getting the others to contribute to the project she should have asked for help from the teacher. Or she should have upped her game, management wise, and perhaps learned some valuable skills along the way.

It sounds as if she has instead (and with your blessing) checked out of the class, not just the project.

I experienced an English class similar to the one you describe, way back in 1977/78. We wrote and performed our own plays about various aspects of teenage angst. It didn't kill me. I think your DD needs to suck it up and play the hand she has been dealt. SpiritedWolf put it better.

The way to improve the school's approach is to go through the official channels. (Agree that mixed ability classes and group projects are ridiculous and I am all for streaming). I also think you need to find out for certain how the teacher will be grading.

I have a long held theory that those people who we've all worked with who take days off sick at the drop of a hat, were allowed by their parents , when at school, to take days off.
Feigning ill health to get out of doing something you don't want to do is not a good way to be.
Don't encourage her to become one of those people.
Do as Spiritedwolf said.
Encourage her - she'll thank you for it one day.

There is little point in letting her take a sick day. If it is a task that needs completing in order for the teacher to tick a box next to her name then she will just have to do it when she gets back. Although as a form of protest it still has its merits.

I agree with everyone else that your daughter needs to overcome her fear of performing/public speaking and just get on with it, just as people who are rubbish at PE have to go through the humiliation of sports day. It's awful, but it's life.

I thinking encouraging your DD to walk out of a lesson is a very poor idea which will backfire on both of you.

However:

I think you have been given a pretty rough ride on this thread. Mixed ability teaching in English is a ridiculous policy and serves no-one. to be put in groups where a blanket grade is awarded for the piece (presumably) that reflects the overall quality of the collaboration is unfair, especially if the teacher knows that the group is not evenly balanced in terms of ability and effort. I would be unhappy about this, but unless it was something that counted towards her GCSE mark I would let it go.

But the thing I really don't get is why she is being forced to take the lead role. That's where the teacher's argument falls down. There is no logic to insisting that she takes a bigger role than any of the the others, and her grade should not be dependent on having a large role - otherwise how on earth is she going to grade the others? If the teacher is well aware that your DD will be making more effort in the writing and the planning then it is extremely unfair of her to expect your DD to carry the performance as well. She is taking the easy option by letting the difficult/lazy ones off lightly.

I would email the teacher, outline your concerns (lose the stroppy tone a bit, it will just make her defensive) and say that your DD really does not feel comfortable in taking the major role and you see no reason why she should be inclined to cooperate, or put her all into a piece where she has so clearly been taken advantage of and has been left feeling demoralised and frustrated.

If the worst comes to the worst you can just tell your DD to put minimum effort into the piece, fluff her lines, get stage fright, mumble, or anything else that basically makes it clear she is just going through the motions to get it over with. If she is brave enough she could just stand theree and say nothing at all. It will prove the point, and frankly, at year 8, one mediocre mark for one piece of work is not going to ruin her future or affect her GSCE.

Op do you realise that depending on how long each group in the class takes, the teacher might want DD's group to do theirs the next day. Or if your DD isn't there & teacher would like to wait until she is to mark her on this project. These things are on the curriculum for a reason. How would your DD cope in an interview with a group of people? She can't walk out. Or rather she can but she won't get the job.

I feel for your DD, I hated public speaking and drama at school, I was definitely more bookish. But you can't get away from public speaking I'm afraid, I had to do lots of it during my maths degree (ie not a degree you'd associate with public speaking) and throughout my career. Sometimes you have to do things you don't want to, I think you should encourage DD to go through with it. It's a life lesson IMO.

My DD (6) has to prepare a speech and speak in front of her class every week, I felt dreadful for her when I found out, but thankfully she enjoys it.