to give dd my blessing to walk out of her English lesson on Monday?

[whysogrumpy]

Before I explain I should say that she, along with my other dc, is pretty much a model pupil - never been in trouble before, but both she and I are at the end of our tethers with this situation.

She is in Year 8 and in a mixed ability class , not a policy I agree with and not one taken up by any of the other subjects in her school, but, hey...
DD is a strong level 6 yet throughout the year has been surrounded by pupils who have never read a book and can barely spell their own names - her words, not mine.

Anyway, over the last few weeks the class have been put into groups by the teacher and told to write a play. They will perform it and be assessed on their performances. DD has had a pretty miserable time since this task was set, she doesn;t get on with any of the kids she has been placed with and tells me that she has been made to do all he work. She has basically written the entire script while they have sat there and yet they will now walk away with top levels thanks to dd .

That is not the worst of it though. DD is pretty bookish and not really one for acting. She hates getting up in front of the class doing stuff like this, plus she feels that, as she has written the thing, she should be able to take a minor role. Anyway, the other kids in her group have refused to take the main role as well and have told dd she needs to do it. The teacher has backed them up and told dd that she needs to take the lead role to get a level 6/7 .

So these little shits who have sat there doing nothing for three weeks have now had their behaviour condoned by the teacher, who seems to be using dd to get some work out of some very difficult pupils. DD was in tears over it on Wednesday night so I phoned the teacher. I couldn't believe what I was told. Apparantly this sort of task is just as important as the essay/story/poem writing that dd excells at . Does she want to be an actress? No, yet she must go through this ridiculous task or, according to the teacher, she will be at risk of failing her GCSEs!!! She's 13 ffs, in year 8! Pissing around doing drama activities with a bunch of kids who can't write - how is that helping her to improve her level?

The teacher ended by saying dd must perform, in the lead role, on Monday. When I told dd she said she'd walk out if forced to go through with this. AIBU to tell her to go for it?

Oh sorry, I see that OP has raised this to the teacher. If that was her response, it was unsatisfactory. In that case, go one step above her. DD should unquestionably have to participate, but that doesn't mean she should be forced to take the lead role. Fuck that.

(and she won't necessarily have to take a lead role in group work, disproportionate to the rest of the group, to do well in speaking and listening at GCSE either.)

Your poor DD. It sounds like they're using the strong children to artificially inflate the marks of the weaker ones.

Posters are still suggesting that Teacher's who make kids do group work when kids don't like group work need to change their approach. OFSTED demand group work. It's in the new framework and if anything, schools will be doing MORE group work, not less. When parents or students I teach say they don't want to do the performing bit, I tend to point out that there are very very few jobs which don't involve talking to others, and that a great many will involve presenting to others in some way. The same goes for working in a team.

OP, if you keep your DD off school, then will she expect to do the same in later years at school when there is something she doesn't want to join in with?

Honestly, your DD needs to learn how to cope in this sort of situation, as it will continue to happen throughout her life. You will have to work with people you dont like, do things you dont like (presentations etc.) and see others gain unfair gratitude for work that is not their own. I find this annoying now, as im still dealing with these situations now, but i would never condone walking out of the lesson. I dont agree with group marked grades, but it will be something she has to do throught her learning (i'm still doing it in my degree course). By all means make her grievences heard, but walking out is not the answer and it will only reflect badly on her.

I really do feel for your DD.

I remember at school how I would suddenly become popular when we had a test, and people would want to sit next to me, so they could copy my work. If I had refused, I would have been a snob. (Of course, they were not snobs for refusing to have anything to do with me the other 99% of the time, because I was uncool.)

I have no doubt that these children may have, in the past, sneered at your DD for being bookish, and I bet it rankles that they are now benefitting from her abilities.

But it is your DD who should matter to you and to her. Not these others, who she may never see again after GCSEs. So she needs to do whatever it takes to get her level 6 or 7. Which means doing the acting, even though it seems unfair.

Incidentally, my DD is at a super selective grammar (I know, stealth boast) and she also has similar problems with collaborative work - people not doing their part, or saying they can do something that they are not actually good at, or taking over and refusing to let anyone else have a chance. But it's all part of learning to work in a team. Which is what most people end up having to do in one form or another, at some stage in their lives.

Sorry but I think YABU. I think it would make more sense to help her deal with her shyness. Drama is part of her GCSE. Being able to speak in front of people is an important life skill- even when you are nervous/scared. I don't think you are doing her any favours by letting her run away from this and I don't think encouraging a child to have a strop and walk out is a good idea either and could potentially lead to another whole set of disciplinary issues for her/you in the future due to lack of respect for a teacher's authority in the classroom etc.

I'm an English teacher. A S&L level will affect her overall level for the year, so in that respect it is important.

YABU

If you have a shy daughter then walking out of a lesson is going to WAY more embarrassing than performing a small group play. It will draw a lot more attention to her and people will talk about it for a lot longer. Crazy solution. I also seriously doubt she'd do it, however much she might talk about it at home. I teach some highly confident, pretty disruptive and low ability 13 year olds and there's no way they would actually just get up and leave the class, however much they disliked the activity. I can't see a bright, well motivated and well behaved child doing it at all.

It sounds like she has been treated unfiarly in terms of the amount of work she has had to do on behalf of the group - but how do you know that the teacher isn't fully aware of this and will give the other children in the group a lower grade?

Also - drama/speaking and listening is absolutely as important a part of the curriculum as all the other aspects of English. Personally, I put as much if not more emphasis on it in my lessons.

Only read first page so excuse me please if all been resolved but..If the teacher is well aware of OP's DD doing all the work so far,how on earth is it fair to then make her take the lead role in the play also, its not the childs fault that others are incapable of doing the work set,it's the teacher's, she shouldn't be made to carry others because she's able to do the work

I will continue to think that 'group work' done in school/uni (peer pressure, cliquiness, randomness of task that each individual gets to do, lack of opportunity to exercise individual strengths) never resembles anything you come across in real life unless you are a contestant on the Apprentice/some other reality TV show or are forced to go on some horrible 'team building' event and is a bizarre way to assess individuals.

The problem is that (as has been said before), in every school there are occasionally rubbish teachers/the subject you want to study isn't on offer/you might have a difficult peer group/you are affected by the whims of educational policy.

The best thing to do is power through it (and then obtain a position of power in education that enables you to put an end to this group assessment charade)

Monday is less than 48 hours away, OP.

IIWY I would veto any idea of a walk out or faking a sickie and talk to my daughter about making the best of a less than ideal situation.

Rehashing the irrelevance/unfairness of the task is now pointless.

Surely it would be better for you to encourage your daughter to turn the tables, practice her part in the Play Wot She Wrote (see what I did there?) and absolutely shine in the major role. It is then win win, surely? Great marks for her and she has learned an important life lesson in Just Getting On With It.

If you have been very sympathetic so far, your DD knows you are on her side. It is now time to be the wise parent and teach her the value of turning a "bad" situation to her benefit.

Just realised that my phone autocorrected "teachers" to "Teacher's" in my last post

Drama forms part of the 'speaking and listening' assessment for year 8's so YABU to let her walk out and to say 'why should she do it. However the teacher is BVU to say it will affect her GCSE's as it won't at all.

FWIW in the year 8 classes I teach in, the quality of the script is not the main thing judged and the teacher takes into account which kids did and didn't help with the script so your DD should get a better grade than them whatever. Oh and to get a level 6/7 she would need a relatively big part I'm afraid!

I can agree that your daughter should not walk out. She needs to learn that life is not always fair. She needs to rise above the other kids. But I disagree with the posters who say that that collaboration is part of life. Yes, it is, and some colleagues will pull their weight more on some projects. But that is very different from project work in a mixed ability class. In jobs, there is some quality control (hopefully ) over the people you work with. They passed an interview and should have relevant skills. Also, if they are completely and obviously bone idle, they might be sacked. Very different from school.

Project work is unfair in an academic setting. But your daughter should make it clear to the teacher what has been happening.

My English gcse had this sort of thing, as did my a level English and they were 20 years ago.

Fwiw I think tge teacher is right to encourage her to develop this area , but is wrong to have ignored what must be obvious regarding tge work of tge group.

on a more general point about life skills...

there are people who can't take anything wrong, don't work out of their zone at all, and these people often doom themselves to unemployment

there are people who put up with anything in the workplace, and these people will sometimes get bullied and dumped on whilst others take credit for their efforts

and there are people who get on with difficulty, but do say NO and will change job if they think they aren't being treated right

the last group are going to be the ones that do best.

in this situation - you are talking about one single incident. however upsetting to a teenager this sort of thing is (and these things are very big in their lives) the total picture is more important to consider. Action that will negatively impact on her is evidently not the right course. I am not sure talking to the school about this is going to help either (it hasn't so far).if you're generally happy with the school otherwise, that's fine - if not look at moving her.

Daughterof... and others who are still missing this point.. OFSTED insist on group work. This is NOT the OP's DD's English teacher being mean or unreasonable or even trying to equip the students with life skills (though IMO group/ team work and presenting in front of others are life skills) If blame needs to be placed, put it at the door of OFSTED, who force schools to jump through more and more specific hoops in order to prove their worth. For what it's worth, I happen to think that group work, when it's done well (by which I mean properly organised and monitored) is brilliant.

I do hope you find a solution for your DD but I agree with EvilTwins , this isn't an idea your DD's English teacher has come up with it's OFSTED

I also agree group work is beneficial but I disagree any childs exam results should include a group work element.

To me that is just wrong

I would have thought that most peoples jobs contain some element of working with others. Mine certainly does, and I agree it can be frustrating.

Your DD can take a valuable lesson from this about getting on with people regardless of how bright they are (or how much help they give you), or you can teach her that problems can be walked away from, I know which one I would do.

Theres nothing wrong with group work per se - however a group with such mixed abilities is quite plainly a recipe for disaster and simply the result of lazy teaching. Which is something which rather echoes my own experiences at school.

I spent the first 3 years of secondary school learning nothing in English lessons - we were taught by the textiles teacher (I kid you not) who clearly would rather have been off sewing somewhere and used to organise most lessons around me reading aloud to the class and then chairing class discussions...my parents complained constantly. Teachers reaction? HS will get an A at GCSE anyway, so why are you worried?!

I think that some of you are being unfair - telling her 'it is life' and to get on with it- knowing that your own DC isn't likely to get such a poor group. When my DCs have been in groups the first worry was 'who was in it? DS has just done a group project at university- he was upbeat from the start because it was a recipe for success- and it was highly successful. It is very dispiriting to know that you could have done so much better if the rest pulled their weight.

hatespong

"however a group with such mixed abilities is quite plainly a recipe for disaster and simply the result of lazy teaching."

can you back that up in anyway, shape or form?

hatesponge - it's utter bollocks to say that mixed ability groupings is lazy teaching.

I haven't read all the posts but my hunch is that the teacher has asked her to take the lead role in order that she can give your DD a much higher level than the other children in her group without creating bad feeling in the class. So, the teacher may be well aware of the situation in the group, wants to give your daughter a higher level but knows that she can't without singling your daughter out as a goody goody. So, if she can't point the other children to a very obvious thing that your daughter has definitely done that the others definitely haven't done she is giving your daughter an opportunity to get a much better level and not to get picked on.

YABU as speaking and listening and group work is part of the national curriculum at this key stage. Your daughter's teacher would be remiss not to do this.

If a school insists on mixed ability (which I think is a bad move, especially for English/Maths) then it is hardly the fault of lazy teachers! I do think though that (if the OP story is entirely accurate and not exaggerated by a stressed dd) that spending three weeks having pupils working in groups to 'write and perform a play' might well be lazy (or perhaps, desperate) teaching.

I still can't believe that an English teacher (unless very inexperienced) would be giving a 'Group Level' though - that just doesn't make any sense at all.