to give dd my blessing to walk out of her English lesson on Monday?

[whysogrumpy]

Before I explain I should say that she, along with my other dc, is pretty much a model pupil - never been in trouble before, but both she and I are at the end of our tethers with this situation.

She is in Year 8 and in a mixed ability class , not a policy I agree with and not one taken up by any of the other subjects in her school, but, hey...
DD is a strong level 6 yet throughout the year has been surrounded by pupils who have never read a book and can barely spell their own names - her words, not mine.

Anyway, over the last few weeks the class have been put into groups by the teacher and told to write a play. They will perform it and be assessed on their performances. DD has had a pretty miserable time since this task was set, she doesn;t get on with any of the kids she has been placed with and tells me that she has been made to do all he work. She has basically written the entire script while they have sat there and yet they will now walk away with top levels thanks to dd .

That is not the worst of it though. DD is pretty bookish and not really one for acting. She hates getting up in front of the class doing stuff like this, plus she feels that, as she has written the thing, she should be able to take a minor role. Anyway, the other kids in her group have refused to take the main role as well and have told dd she needs to do it. The teacher has backed them up and told dd that she needs to take the lead role to get a level 6/7 .

So these little shits who have sat there doing nothing for three weeks have now had their behaviour condoned by the teacher, who seems to be using dd to get some work out of some very difficult pupils. DD was in tears over it on Wednesday night so I phoned the teacher. I couldn't believe what I was told. Apparantly this sort of task is just as important as the essay/story/poem writing that dd excells at . Does she want to be an actress? No, yet she must go through this ridiculous task or, according to the teacher, she will be at risk of failing her GCSEs!!! She's 13 ffs, in year 8! Pissing around doing drama activities with a bunch of kids who can't write - how is that helping her to improve her level?

The teacher ended by saying dd must perform, in the lead role, on Monday. When I told dd she said she'd walk out if forced to go through with this. AIBU to tell her to go for it?

I don't agree. When you put children together who are of such divergent abilities, you end up effectively with one child 'teaching' the others - what precisely is the teacher doing in that situation? I know from my own experience at school, she wasn't doing very much at all.

If you speak to most people who attended average (in every sense of the word) comps in the last 20 years, they will have had similar experiences. My own DS has been through it as well, throughout primary school he was paired with the least able and/or worst behaved in the class because it would help them. It may well have done, but it did fuck all to help him.

Of course that doesn't matter, because most state schools nowadays are only concerned with bottom end results...once you get all your pupils over the minimum standard it doesn't seem to matter how well or otherwise children do.

yanbu

'most state schools nowadays are only concerned with bottom end results...once you get all your pupils over the minimum standard it doesn't seem to matter how well or otherwise children do.' That's also changing and Ofsted will be much more interested in the number of A and A star grades achieved. Many schools with v high '5 A* to C' passes are now finding themselves to be judged only satisfactory or at best good because they are not sufficiently stretching able pupils.

I understand your frustration and your DD's upset - but you should not encourage her to avoid this situation. Since she has written the play in almost its entirety, she might like to adapt bits of it - change the weighting of the parts, perhaps, so that her "major" role becomes more minor. Or add in something about the level of work that the major role participant has done.

I think that she should do the part but she has the facility to adapt it to suit
her own ends and she should do that.

I don't think the entire group should profit off the back of her hard work though - they should be marked individually according to effort and contribution. Then none of it would matter so much in terms of being fair.

I don't blame you for being annoyed. that is why I could never understand mixed ability groups rather than ability setting in secondary. schools I used to support in such groups and you always got the same kids doing the bulk of the work.

isnt it terrible your daughter has written the entire play herself and they dont want to take on the roles she has given them!

All of them are dim and thick and so not worthy of her mixing with them, esp as she is SOOOOO bright.

good grief, YABU.

part of life is mixing with others, from a wide varity of life and ability, and by far the skill of working as a team is part of everyones employment.

WHY would these other children take on the roles your child dictates?

Did she confer with the children and take on board their verbal ideas as she wrote it? were they included in any way?

Group work doesn't necessarily mean 'assign the project and wait two weeks to see the results' on the part of the teacher.

The DCs in their schools in the US were required to present individual reports during the prep period for group work projects (and there were lots of projects involving presentations as Nooka remarked), usually at least one written paper, describing the aims, the concept, work done already and a description of the role each was playing in the project.

And a group grade was never reflected in the individual grade of any of my DCs -- I also find it very hard to believe each member of the group in this case will get the same grade.

I'd get her to go in and do the play but also make an appointment with head of department and/or head of year to address your concerns about this class and its affect on your DD, your concerns about this particular piece of work being used as an example to highlight the issues - that your worried that her potential and marks are being pulled down by this class and her attitude to school/work negatively affected.

You've already tried to talk to the class teacher about your concerns so would have thought next step would be someone slightly higher who can either put your concerns to rest of have a word with your DD to try an alleviate her frustration.

Oh edless you are so sensible and wise, and so right.

DD has to do play and stop complaining.

When I was at college with a bunch of idle lads we were set a group project each year of the course, supposedly to get us experience of working as a team and always the one or two workers did all the work and the idle rest of the group copied. But if you didn't do the work you all ended up with a rubbish mark.

I think this is the case in uni too from what my DCs have said. Tell her this and that it is good practice for the future and then she will know to get a team together of other hardworkers like her. Though sometimes the tutor chooses the groups. When it counts to whether you get a 1st or Second at uni it really matters, unlike her predicament.

I think you have two issues to deal with, and they really are quite separate.

1. Your DD has been asked by her teacher to do something that is outside her comfort zone. I think you should find ways of encouraging and supporting your DD to do her very best, learn some new skills and hopefully come out of it with improved confidence in her own abilities. Walking away or taking a sick day will make it harder for your DD to push herself next time she is pushed to do something new or different.

2. If the behaviour of the other children in your DDs group has been so genuinely mean that she has felt bullied, then you should report that bullying to the school to handle under their proper processes. If the teacher isn't willing or able to deal with bullying in their class, then you need to escalate your concerns.

Sending your DD 'break a leg' vibes and hoping she knocks them dead - after all nobody knows the script better than she does.

I thought lessons like drama, public speaking etc was a new thing, i didn't know that all of you have done those in 70s and 80s! I'm envious.

I would have loved to do that. We did fuck all re life skills at school. At 18 i was expert at Latin but i didn't know how to write a cv let alone public speaking. I've spend hours at the library and even paid for seminars trying to learn these skills.

And LOL @ them being 'shits who skip school' when you are planning a sick day for your dd!!!
Or maybe skipping school is a heroic political act when your very bright dd does it of course.

All gcse English courses have a speaking and listening unit which is around 20% of the gcse. Your dd will have to do three tasks one of which is role play and one is an individual talk to the rest of the class. I don't like mixed ability setting either but drama will be a part of her gcse grade whether she wants be an actress or not...

The teacher has backed them up and told dd that she needs to take the lead role to get a level 6/7

Well she can refuse to do a lead role and do a small one. And she'll get a level 5 probably for the speaking and listening.

She will still get a 6/7 for doing the writing.

She will get graded for what she DOES.

Wrote the play - good grade for Writing Assessment

Performed one of the lead roles well - good grade for Speaking and Listening Assessment

Performed one of the lead roles badly - not such a good grade for Speaking and Listening Assessment

Performed one of the minor roles - not such a good grade for Speaking and Listening Assessment

It's her CHOICE. If she wants to get a good grade for speaking and listening, she has got to speak, unfortunately.

Has this really come as a surprise to you, that they are assessed for Speaking and Listening as well as for reading and writing. She is in Year 8. Did she not do SATS?

Can I just reiterate that there is absolutely no such thing as a 'group grade' in KS3 or KS4 English?

Yes, I can see that the OP's dd would probably do better & enjoy it more in a group of keen, higher ability students like herself, & I wouldn't at all blame the OP for not being happy with the mixed ability teaching.

But there seem to be a few posters going off on a tangent re: the other kids getting a grade based on OP's dd's performance. That won't happen -or if it does, the teacher is categorically not doing her job.

'The teacher ... seems to be using dd to get some work out of some very difficult pupils.'

Nail on head.

I'm a mother of a little shit - a little year 8 shit. Just for the record, he doesn't come from a broken home, a home that doesn't value education or respect or any of those good things. You sound like your DD is just peachy perfect, well, well done you. My DS is coming out of his most shittiest phase and is learning that sometimes, alot of times we just have to do what we have to do - to get our heads down and get on with it whether we would like it or not.
My son will be fine - he gets a lot of support and alot of tough love at home - when he eventually emerges from this period he will have learned so many more valuable lessons than your DD who is being told by you that if she doesn't like something well goodness me no, she shouldn't have to do it. She is being taught that there is only value in relating to people who are 'like' her in ability and attitude. Well good luck to her - once those apron strings are cut and she hits her first tricky moment in her place of work - what is she going to do - walk out, phone you and ask her to pick her up? My parenting is far from perfect, trust me but your DD should be told that she needs to do this, with lots of support and encouragement and that absolutely there must be no walking out and even more certainly no wrapping up in cotton wool on a sick day. Oh, your post has made me so angry - stop being so judgemental and start supporting your DD in the way she needs.

mrseffington - Great post, I wish your son all the best for the future.
(My sons are younger but I've had a few interesting moments with my eldest (Yr 4) already).

YANBU
Your DD already did more than her fair share of the work by writing the script. You are also right that while the other kids might have SEN it's not your or your DDs problem. (And to the two posters who complained: yes, there are 13-year-olds, and even 16-year-olds who can hardly spell their name and have never read a book).

Whyso, I would simply keep her at home. Call in sick and if you can, do something fun with her. Let's see how the rest of the group performs then! ;)

Will you let us know what happened on Monday? I walked out of a lesson many years ago because my mum gave me permission to. At parents evening she and my teacher had a lovely chat where they both agreed that I was silly and misguided to have walked out.

I'd have thought at 13 years old the world of work is a long way off - and whether OP DD gets into it depends on her exam results.

The OP concern is with her DD not all the other children and this situation seems to be one that's highlighting general concerns with the teaching, streaming and the other students attitude to her DD which is affecting DD attitude.

I don't think it would be a good idea for OP to tell her DD to walk out but equally its hardly great to tell OP and her daughter to suck it up as other people are lasy buggers and her doing all the work is o.k. as IME being a doormat and let other take the piss isn't a good way to get on in life.

OP need to talk to the school about her concerns and possible someone need to talk /reassure her DD, possibly clariy the marking system and make sure OP daughter is not put off English work by this experience

Come back to this - sorry - it's made me cross! My son is pretty much the opposite of your DD in terms of his work in English. Imagine my delight when his teacher went on at length about how talented he is in comprehension, speaking and listening and is inspired when standing up in front of the class (when not acting the clown obviously). In this bit of English he is currently working at level 7c. he struggles with written work - he is an awkward left hander and has always struggled to write fluently and would much rather talk and tell you about it than write it down. He is operating at barely level 5 c here.... How wonderful it would be if he were grouped with your daughter - he could learn alot from her about writing and she could learn alot from him about having confidence in a public speaking situation. But then she wouldn't give him a second chance would she - he would be a little shit refusing to do any work right?

ChazsBrilliantAttitude - thank you. And of course all the best for yours. I'm guessing you don't want to hear any of the horror stories? ;)

mrseffington totally agree. dont scare me though DS is only 18 months.

And I was a HORRIFIC LITTLE SHIT as a teenager. I fear karma will get me.

Having spent the day with a 16 year old helping her with physics reviews I can honestly say that GCSE are bollocks and the Nat Cur has turned out to be the worst thing ever in actually teaching kids stuff. I'm appalled. She herself admitted she had no understanding of what she was being taught. She wanted to learn the concepts behind what she was learning, not just how to pass exams. I've not done physics in 16 years. Its definitely not rocket science (just boring as hell).