Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Flip

1 2 3 4 5

Original poster

To say no to the school?

108 replies

Annunziata · 21/05/2012 13:47

I had the world's worst work experience girl a few weeks ago. If she came on time, she was completely inappropriately dressed, she was rude, she was lazy... it goes on and on.

And then this morning her school sent me an email asking if I could write a new reference because (and I quote) 'we felt that the original one was not very positive and will not benefit X in the future.'

AIBU to say no? I think giving her the truth will benefit her more in the future than telling her she was wonderful!

OP posts:

HopeForTheBest · 21/05/2012 14:42

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on request of its author.

Tee2072 · 21/05/2012 14:46

Absolutely do not re-write it. People need to start telling students the truth and stop worrying about their feelings, FFS.

We had a work study person at my last full time job that was so awful I actually rang the school and told them there was no way she could continue. Lazy, didn't listen, messed about. I hope she learned something from being held accountable for her actions.

And it is absolutely not illegal to say something bad on a reference.

Floggingmolly · 21/05/2012 14:47

No, don't amend the reference. Why's the point of a reference in the first place if it's not accurate?
If it shows the girl in a bad light she won't be able to use it in future job applications - which should teach her all she needs to know about behaving properly in her next position.
What does giving her an undeserved, good reference teach her?

Original poster

Annunziata · 21/05/2012 14:48

Exactly!

I praise effort if it's made but there was none in this case.

OP posts:

Thumbwitch · 21/05/2012 14:49

I agree with the rest, I think your original reference was perfectly reasonable!

The school can stick it - or you could write an even more honest and less diplomatic version to show how well you did the first one...

We used to have a girl working at our place who, when she left, the only good things management could say about her were that she was generally punctual and usually well-dressed. The lack of anything regarding her job competence spoke volumes...

drcrab · 21/05/2012 14:49

So...let us know how the school responds then! :) can't believe the cheek of them to ask for a 're-write'...

PrimaBallerina · 21/05/2012 14:51

In reference to her skirt length maybe YABU. When I did work experience many years ago the old woman in charge of me made mention of my lack of skirt length in my reference. The truth was that I was 14, tall and had borrowed skirts from friends as I had nothing to wear and my mum wouldn't buy me anything else.

I turned up and looked semi interested though...

thisisyesterday · 21/05/2012 14:51

wtf is the point of a reference if you are only allowed to write positive stuff??

i would speak to the school and explain how rude, unreliable and lazy she was.
say you will not be re-writing the reference as you do not wish to lie.

she doesn't have to use the reference does she? so it's not as if it will affect her.
and she will hopefully have learned a valuable lesson

Original poster

Annunziata · 21/05/2012 14:52

I will do drcrab. I would have thought I'd have one back by now but not yet.

OP posts:

TheHouseOnTheCorner · 21/05/2012 14:53

I think if you take work experience students on then you are directly contributing to their education...which is a big responsibilty....you do owe the girl some positivity...she came...she worked for free...is there NOTHING you could say which may be useful to her? Did she not smile once? Greet other people?

I am sure the school has spoken to her abuot your comments....

hackmum · 21/05/2012 14:54

Who is the reference for, ie who will read it?

I think it's important to be honest, though I might take out the reference to dress and focus on stuff like timekeeping and ability to complete tasks on time, address customers appropriately etc.

Quite a long time ago I did some part time teaching in an FE college to A level students. I had to write a paragraph that would be used as part of their tutor's reference in uni applications. About one girl I wrote, "X hasn't handed in any work or made any contribution in class, so I can't make any comment about her abilities." I was told this wasn't good enough, even though it was completely truthful.

Original poster

Annunziata · 21/05/2012 14:55

I hadn't considered that, PrimaBallerina. She did turn up in trousers after I'd told her it wasn't on, to be fair to her.

OP posts:

hackmum · 21/05/2012 14:56

Btw, what you wrote in your reference sounds a lot more generous than what you wrote in your OP ("the world's worst work experience girl").

TheHouseOnTheCorner · 21/05/2012 14:59

If someone turns up and works (even badly) for free then they deserve SOMETHING in return...what about mentioning that she is open to advice and willing to learn (in ref to the trousers) and that she is a friendly person....?

piprabbit · 21/05/2012 14:59

I think you should stick to your original reference. However, if you feel inclined, you could offer to pop into the school and give the girl a feedback session. A lot of people would give their eye-teeth to have 1-2-1 feedback on interviews etc. so I think it would be very generous of you to offer. Perhaps her careers teacher could sit in on the session?

TBH though it sounds as though you've already put quite a lot of time and effort into helping this girl and her school, so I'd understand if you just wanted to draw a line under it all now.

Original poster

Annunziata · 21/05/2012 14:59

TheHouseOnTheCorner- I did give her lunch everyday! She wasn't particuarly smiley, although she was good with children, which I did put in (the longer original). She ignored customers who were leaving even though I asked/ told her to thank them and say goodbye if they walked past her.

Hackmum Well, the school definitely reads it. It can be used on an official CV but that's obviously up to the individual.

OP posts:

mummymeister · 21/05/2012 15:02

Agree with the majority - do not rewrite. at what point do people want to know the truth about the real world of work. surely the time to find this out is when you are doing WE. reading something like this might make her realise that. with regards to dress, in some industries this is important. if you are working in a restaurant you dont expect eyefuls of cleavage (of the neck or bottom sort), scruffy or just too much jangly jewellery. what kids have to learn is that the real world of work isnt the cosy fluffy world of school where everyone gets a prize and no one ever fails. its damn tough out there especially now and those that make an effort in whatever job they do will be rewarded. better to learn at 14 isnt it? if you want to be do something else then why not suggest you meet her and the school (poss also the parents) to discuss why you put what you did. i think you sound like a really decent person who is keen to give willing youngsters a chance.

Original poster

Annunziata · 21/05/2012 15:02

I like the feedback session idea. DH has suggested we give her another WE- even just a weekend- but I don't know if I can cope with that!

Not particularly friendly, and normally I can tell if a teenager is just trying to be respectful of older people.

I was honestly trying to be diplomatic in the original!

OP posts:

Pandemoniaa · 21/05/2012 15:02

I'd not rewrite the reference either. It isn't as if you've entirely damned her. I might consider emailing the school to say that while you realise she is only 14 and therefore inexperienced in the ways of work, the quality of her performance went well below mere inexperience.

Also, that work experience is surely the time to address these things so that she's better placed to get and keep a job when she leaves school. So for all those reasons it would be unhelpful to the student to write a work of fiction rather than a constructive and realistic reference.

Original poster

Annunziata · 21/05/2012 15:04

Thank you mummymeister!

OP posts:

NoOnesGoingToEatYourEyes · 21/05/2012 15:08

Perhaps you can tell them that you stand by your first reference based on the time she was with you but would consider giving her a second opportunity for work experience so that she can earn a better reference second time around.

knowitallstrikesagain · 21/05/2012 15:13

YANBU. Tell the school that you cannot write a positive reference because the experience was not a positive one. If they don't want to use the reference, they don't have to.

I would hate to employ someone on the basis of a positive reference only to find out that it was a lie.

lagoonhaze · 21/05/2012 15:14

Tell the school you will not be rewriting a reference unless she wants to come back and demonstrate she is worthy of a positive one.

Original poster

Annunziata · 21/05/2012 15:17

The school (well, her guidance teacher) has replied: 'I'd prefer that you focused on what X did right rather than on the less positive aspects of her performance. You don't need go into specifics, general impressions will do.'

I have replied: 'The general impression was not positive at all. I will not re-write my original because I do not believe that her performance deserves it. If X wishes to discuss this further she is welcome to contact me by telephone. If she would like to earn a better reference I will try and make arrangements for a second round of work experience during the summer holidays.'

I feel quite proud of myself!

OP posts:

NigellaPleaseComeDineWithMe · 21/05/2012 15:21

Flip

1 2 3 4 5

Swipe left for the next trending thread