To give you an update on the Backyard Bungalow saga?

[OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere]

I have kept quiet over the last few months not from any wish to be mysterious but because feck all has happened.

Well I say nothing has happened, the neighbours are now living in the bungalow and their house is occupied by a bewildering array of people. They are fairly quiet in the house but do many annoying things outside including talking on mobiles early in the morning and late at night and having sex in cars.

Anyway, got a letter from planning today telling me that planning permission for the mahoooosive fence they put up after they did all the annoying, noisy and intrusive building work, (the bastards) has been REFUSED.

Yes REFUSED! This is in no small part to the amazing letter written for me by MrsMarjoribanks. I can just picture their faces when they received it, their bemused looks as they tried to marry up the vision of ME with the letter in front of them

So the fecking feckers have to take down their ugly fecking 10 foot fence.
I hope they dont, I hope they continue to think they can get away with anything they like, thus drawing more attention to themselves and getting their just desserts. SO NER!

Yeah good point. Maybe lunchtime then? 2pm just as they are coming back to the office to pick up their clipboards.

I know all about these friday emails. Social Services etc have a habit of sending them. Leaves you all weekend fretting and seething because there is nothing you can do till the next week.

I'd go for earlier to be honest. Copy it to the enforcement officer, the case office that dealt with the fence application and the head of planning if you know the email address. I'd also put read receipts on it

Good luck!

I am going to copy in MP because she has been involved.

What a palava!

The BBC are making a new series on planning. Goes out in the new year.

right.
I'm gonna send it.
(eep)

Good luck little letter

let us know how you get on won't you

Its done.
You are clever. Thanks everso.
If nothing else it will show them that I am not stupid. (even if I didnt actually write it).

We shall see, I doubt I will hear anything for a while.

But I will of course let you all know.

Not Happy
Got this back
Thank you for your e-mail. Though I personally did not carry out the
enforcement investigation on this, I have discussed it with my colleague
who did. I understand that the outbuilding was originally erected as a
gym and this is classed as a purpose incidental to the enjoyment of a
dwelling house, so it met the criteria for Class E of the General
Permitted Order. It was then used for several months for this purpose.
There is a loophole in the legislation that once a Class E outbuilding
has been erected and used for incidental purposes for a period, it can
then be used for primary living purposes without needing planning
permission. Your neighbours have taken advantage of this loophole and we
cannot take action in this respect. The appeal case you quote related to
a building which was to be used for primary living purposes from the
outset and that clearly did not meet the Class E criteria. Thus,
applying the principles of the Rambridge Case, the Inspector said it
needed planning permission.

The officer who carried out the site visit found that the house and
outbuilding were occupied by an extended family living together as one
household. There was no kitchen in the outbuilding, so there is no
question of it being a separate dwelling. On this basis there is not a
breach of planning control. If you have evidence which contradicts
this, I would be grateful if you would supply it and it is possible that
we would look at this matter further. Without further evidence showing
what was previously found was not correct, we could rightly be accused
of harassing your neighbours if we visited the property again.

I trust this clarifies this matter.

I am afraid I sent this bI am away from home so I shall have to keep this brief.
Unless the owners of XXXXX have adopted several very large teenagers from various parts of the globe it is clear that there are not living as one family unit.
Your wish to avoid harassing them is admirable I only wish that we could be afforded the same consideration.
If they have taken advantage of a loophole [the borough] has allowed them to do so.
It is not my job to enforce planning in this borough and the implication that I should gather evidence is ridiculous.
They are renting out rooms in their house and using an outbuilding as a residence.
I am left with the impression that [the borough]. Planning Dept. simply does not have the will to enforce the law.
I also resent the implication that I am being unreasonable to expect my neighbours not to behave in this way.
I trust you will be ensuring they take the fence own that DOES contravene planning regulations. ack. I only had my phone and was pissed off

Yes, I was worried that this loophole was being used.

What are the 'lodgers' like that are in the main house? What information could you get from them?

Get your MP involved because the 'gym' use was clearly a ploy - and it never was used for this purpose and was never intended to be used for this purpose.

A thousand curses.

Are housing still going to visit? This has been deceptive from the word go and I need to do some reading

But they never used it as a gym so how could they change its usage?

I have just emailed my MP. I wouldnt get any info from the lodgers. It is all very furtive.

AND the fuckers use a fucking hosepipe even though they are banned in this area.

If I WAS being vindictive I would be grassing them up for that wouldnt I.

BASTARDS!

Hang on in there Mrs De V.

Can you get your kids to horse around in the street outside your house and theirs while taking pictures that just happen to have the "extended family" in the background?
You can pixelate your kids out later ....

Housing Standards are still visiting. If they are bloody pathetic as the PE they will also think that several young adults from various parts of India, Pakistan and Eastern Europe are somehow 'a single family unit'

No-one bloody cares do they.
Because this is a poor area they think we dont matter.

Oh that is a shitter. It was never actually used as a gym though, and just putting 'gym' on plans isn't enough. I haven't got access to case law at home so can't do any research until I'm back in on Wednesday, but there must be something else out there that helps you.

Let's all have a think about this over the long weekend.

It's so frustrating sometimes

It's a joke, how have they got away with it?

How long was it used as a "gym" for and what is the minimum time that they should have used it as a class E building for? What sort of gym only has a an exercise bike in it and is there no other planning law that makes the intentional and deliberate use of a loophole as unacceptable?

I feel a bit better now I have sent an email to the MP and local Clr.

You know what? Honestly, it isnt just because they are next door to me. It is the unfairness of it all.
They are not going to take that fence down are they? Why should they? They have done exactly what the like so far.

The frustrating part is that IF the LA wanted to do something, the law is there. They just cannot be bothered.

I am a pleb and I live in a pleb house in a pleb part of an unfashionable part of east london therefore - who gives a toss?

(apart from you lot of course)

Mrs De, that is awful, been reading the threads, how can they think it is one residence. I'm frustrated for you and I haven't had to live with it. Hope the super mumsnet planners can come up with something.

Deceit in planning is a big issue and there is case law but we need to do a bit of research on suitable cases.

I bet Housing find that there's only 5 people living there so the planners don't deal with it as an HMO either. :(

I'm sorry about this MrsD - planning is supposed to protect you from stuff like this

Even if its not a HMO do they not have to have certain standards? Actually scrap that question.

This LA is rubbish. I am ashamed to work for it ATM for so many reasons.

I'll answer it though.

Yes they do but it won't be planning that deal with it

MrsDV, I work for an authority which contains some of the most deprived wards in the country. The only difference is that less deprived places tend to have people who shout louder. So shout and keep shouting until they take some notice.

Oh and that thing about harassment is bollocks. It is an enforcement officer's job to harass people who have breached planning control until they get to the bottom of it. That's why one of my officers is so effective - the offending party does what she wants just to get rid of her.

www.pcs.planningportal.gov.uk/pcsportal/fscdav/READONLY?OBJ=COO.2036.300.5.83677&NAME=/decision%20letter.pdf

Is this any use? Lawful development was allowed at appeal because the development did not create two planning units.

The fact that it's not one family is absolutely key to this issue I think. I think I'd be taking photos and keeping a diary and getting the Border Agency involved

Agree about harrassment being BILGE
I read planning enforcement lists at lots of councils as part of my work.
If the inspector takes a dislike to somebody, twice daily visits are within their powers !
And in one case its been random visits 6 times a week for over a year ....