to think a biological child is not a right

[Aribura]

and the NHS should not fund IVF in favour of vital medications for already existing people e.g. cancer drugs being funded?

I'm feeling masochistic this evening and am looking forward to munching on some biscuits and getting my ass handed to me.

I hate the attitude that somehow Ivf children are more precious than children concieved the "natural" way. Bollocks to that attitude.

It was the that annoyed me.

Goldengoblin isn't it great that it is so easy to slot everyone neatly into a "good infertile" or "bad infertile" pigeon hole. Now you've put it like that I can see that I probably deserve to be sterilised.

emoticons can be tricky to use and interpret though, hey molehill

She's probably just a bit proud of her DCs and that's pretty understandable ?

"I hate the attitude that somehow Ivf children are more precious than children concieved the "natural" way. Bollocks to that attitude"

I hate the way that people get a baby through merely being bright enough to move one leg away from the other ! And then feel self righteous enough to question the rights of people who put in a little more time, effort, thought and money to a long and arduous process. Bollocks to that !

Unless you have experienced infertility - you really will not have a clue what it feels like to have a biological, psychological drive to conceive yet only be able to acheive that with medical intervention...
This is a non debate. Civilised society has long recognised the need to treat infertility, anyone without the condition bleating on really doesnt have a right to bleat. So butt out !!
And before you rabbit on, again, about our taxes pay for ivf ....... well No more than childless couple working and paying taxes that others will have the benefit of by using state schools, maternity services, gp practices, health visitors, etc etc ..
We all pay into the pot that will fund many things that some us will never, thankfully, need to benefit from.
think !!

You're right bumdrop some people have a harder time than others giving life to their children. But the ones who struggled don't love theirs more.

Not love, maybe appreciate.

"The UK is no longer a wealthy country."

That is not true.

If those "fertile" did appreciate how amazing conception etc.. is as opposed to taking it, so for granted,
Why would they want to deny anyone the chance ???

They make take the ability to conceive for granted but I don't think people do their children. Not anyone with half a brain anyway.

I don't know, obviously I am VERY biased !!
But it often strikes me, that parents are not very grateful for their blessings !
Not all.
I am so lucky to have my DD.
I waited ten years.
Spent thousands.
She is my whole life !!
Thank god and robert Winston !! for IVF xxx

Jesus, Bumdrop, you really are an argument for banning IVF altogether if it creates parents who think all other parents are unworthy and their children less special.

I mean FFS, this thread is full of women who conceived easily and still support IVF on the NHS.

Is it really necessary to tell us our children are a bit shite and we don't love them enough?

Wow, "thing.."
You make quite a leap from what was written, to what you think it said.
Do u find you often do that ???
I think it's called .... Error.

Of course the products of ivf aren't loved more. But I think I can see a glimmer of what I think bumdrop might be getting at.

Lots of people who have lost pregnancies say things like "I wanted to be pregnant again as soon as possible, to take away the pain of the loss". If you conceive easily, then that is something you can do, though it doesn't of course make the original loss any easier. But if you have struggled for years to achieve a pregnancy, you know you won't have that option if anything goes wrong. I think that that is an added source of anxiety and desperation during pregnancy itself. It's your one chance, and that fact does make it feel like your pregnancy is more valuable than that of someone who can get pregnant again if hers fails.

I know that this is a gross simplification of a million subtle and personal situations, but that is, I think, where bumdrop may be coming from.

Northey. Thanks, yes x

If people have a medical problem it should be treated, that is what they pay tax for. You wouldn't deny medical treatment for a hernia, ear infection or the removal of a benign lump because they won't kill you, unlike cancer so why should people be deprived of treatment for their infertility?

Most people want to reproduce their genes, it's natural, not

Got cut off there! Just to finish; adoption is not suitable for everybody, not everybody can take somebody elses child and love it as their own.

I struggled to conceive, I know that anxiety. In fact I am not having a third, I utterly refuse to contemplate another pregnancy because I cannot face that uncertainty again. But I don't presume to know how precious other peoples children are to them. I simply can't know.

Bumdrop, you were agreeing with a lost that said that children born from IVF were more special than other children.

And you started wittering about how parents who conceive without IVF are not grateful enough and don't appreciate the miracle of conception.

In the same way that I can't know the pain of serious infertility, you can't know how grateful, or otherwise, people feel for getting pregnant easily.

Making general statements of an uncharitable, prejudiced kind about most parents is not becoming, or necessary.

I might as well claim that parents who conceive via IVF are all unhealthily obsessed by their children.

But I wouldn't because it would be untrue, unfair and disloyal to all the parents I know of children conceived through IVF who just think of themselves as regular parents now (which they are), not some eternally hallowed race of super parent.

"your pregnancy is more valuable than that of someone who can get pregnant again if hers fails."

Jesus!

Women who miscarry don't usually take much comfort from, "sure you can just get pregnant again."

Really? People think some pregnancies are more valuable than others? Nice.

Athing that is an awful thing to say! Fwiw my Dd was conceived easily and "naturally" despite indications that said it should never have happened. I also have a relative who tried ivf several times and was unsuccessful. As a couple they are the best (adoptive) parents out there. I also have more distant relatives who can, and do, have child after child after child despite their complete inability to care for their emotional and basic material needs. Do I think they appreciate their kids as much as they should do? Hello no.

OP - what a vile thread. Let's hope life never throws you any lemons as you are obviously charmed ...... !

I'm another one currently undergoing (NHS funded !) IVF. I've paid 40% tax for the last 10 years so not feeling too bad about it ..... !

In fact - have this

Only4
I agree, of course it's a generalisation
But .... I think there is a difference, at times, between those who have literally fought tooth and nail to have a child,
And those who havent.
And in its simplist form the best word to describe it for me is gratitude.
I know lots of non ivf parents who clearly really do value the chance to be parents,
Bu there are those who just seem to not get how fortunate they are.
I don't want them to do an appreciation dance or whatever !!
I guess just not seem so bloody put out when their kids are ....
Just being kids.

Best of Luck with the cycle miss bright side x

Sorry cupcake hugs to you.

Totally agree bumdrop excellent posts.