Not to want to take an Orange Person with me to a business meeting?

[Hopefullyrecovering]

The business is professional services. We went out to a client and the graduate in our team came with me. She was bright orange. Literally bright orange. I could see the client visibly wondering whether or not the orange would rub off onto him during the handshake. It looked grotesque and thoroughly unprofessional. There was an accompanying issue of shedloads of make-up. Which was similarly unprofessional This girl does not need it. She is perfectly nice-looking (I believe although there was so much orange, and fake lashes etc that it is difficult to tell)

So, AIBU? And if IANBU, how on earth am I going to raise this issue?

She had orange (fake tan) skin. Long black hair. Lots of very black make up. She wore high heals, knee length deep cut summery dresses to work and job interviews. I used to envy her very shapely figure and size 32d chest.

She didn't retrain as a SW, did she? that describes one of my collegues.

I agree that make up should be toned down, but now that sun beds are the devil incarnate, some people have the choice of being orange or white, here most choose orange. Which tbh, on some people, i prefer, but then i know enough highly intelligent, good people, to not judge that look, negatively.

I used to wear lots of tan to cover bruises...if someone told me not to wear it, id have panicked as then everyone would see them.

I work in a school and we have a few oompah-loompas running around. One 15yr old even looks likes she is wearing a couple of dead tarantulas on her eyelashes as they are caked with so much mascara.

How her mother could let her out of the house looking like that, I don't know. Maybe mum looks like that herself.

I must be getting old. I sound just like my mother.

Birds!

She was working in an office for a few years, then retrained as a social worker!

She has one dd.

Couldn't you just ask her, with a genuinely bewildered expression:

"WHY are you wearing FALSE EYELASHES to WORK??? This isn't the cosmetics counter in Boots you know! Honestly, it's a great look if you're going clubbing, but it really isn't necessary or appropriate for the office."

Sometimes you have to be brutally honest with recent graduates, and there are a lot of conventions we take for granted about professional life. Some of these young people might be the first in their family to actually have an office-based job and the rules have simply passed them by.

20 years ago, my younger tomboy post-graduate student flat-mate came for a job interview (for a professional City post) in my workplace. I literally had to drag a comb through her hair in the lift, brush dandruff off her jacket and get her to clean her nails. She was quite mortified (I was impatient because I'd got her the interview and MY reputation was riding on her being presentable) but she explained later that her lovely SAHM mum had never been able to give her any advice about grooming for a "smart" job.

Definitely say something - especially given you've got a dress code. In professional services you absolutely have to match what the clients except as they're paying your wages. It's even more important with the grads I think as they are soooo young and they need to be credible. When I was training I thought I was so grown up but now I'm on the 'other side' and they send 23 year olds to talk to me I find myself looking at some of them and thinking 'how can you possibly know this - are you doing this as your 2 weeks post-GCSE work experience'.

The firm I joined used to send all new grads to see an evil image consultant - she was ueber-groomed and accessorised to within an inch of her life and looked like Cruella. She saw they women and the men separately in groups. She would start off by removing the belt, scarf, watch etc, then the jacket, her lipstick and so on to demonstrate the importance of 'good grooming'. We were all given a sheet with about 57 different ways to tie a scarf (all of which screamed 'air hostess) and a checklist to mark off our current outfit. I thought I was doing quite well as you got 1 point for a ring, 1 for a bracelet, 1 for lipstick etc - we needed to get 12 points or something - she then came over and told me that for every ring over 2 you lost points as it wasn't a professional look. This was mid-90s and the office I was in still didn't let women wear trousers, it was only when we got a new senior female manager who had been on secondment to Amsterdam and she wore trousers that the rest of us dared to .

Ah yes, the OP is racist against orange people. I know MN takes PC to a whole other level but furgunnessake.

YANBU. It always has been, is so now, and will always be, that people make snap assumptions about others based on what they look like. If there is a dress code then she must adhere to it. I would be taking this to HR and letting them deal with it.

Yes, what race do the "orange people" belong to, for this to be racism?

Hm. In my company ( similar culture to professional services) something would be said. TBH a lot of the senior partners would be chuntering about it so one of the mid level, approachable people like me would take it on ourselves to have a quiet but supportive word. Things were said to me in a kind way when I first joined my firm & I've always been grateful.

I have a friend like this. She bleaches her hair a lot too, everytime I see her she is more orange and her hair is more straw-like. Was with my grandma the other week and we saw her and my friend said hello to my grandma. She said hello back then when friend was out of earshot grandma turned to me and said 'Who was that? Do I know her?' I replied 'yes grandma, it's X!' My grandma was just ' I didn't recognise her with all that strange make up all over her face!' me ':o I know, she gets more orange everytime I see her'

Quint I think it must be white people as no one else goes orange do they? Or it could just be people trivialising an important equality issue.

AKMD - I fear you are right on both accounts.

Here is the plan:

1. I will contact HR and get them to put a "No orangeness allowed" section in the personnel handbook.

1. I will get one of the younger managers to have a quiet and kind word with the graduate in question.

The second thing is a bit of an abdication of responsibility, but I figure that since I am old enough to be her Mum and twice as scary, it might come better from someone younger and more approachable.

If you work in law could you offer to help her write a letter to the company "who ruined your tan and made you look like a laughing stock"? Would she take the hint?!

'As someone said above, of course people can dress however they want, but there might be consequences they wouldn't like. It's helpful to explain that so they can make an informed choice.'

This.

I think you will be on a hiding to nothing if you take this issue up with anyone at work. It is in my experience terribly hard to be "sisterly" about these things without being seen as the office bitch.

I am assuming that your client relationships are strong enough to survive this - if you think she's giving the wrong impression of your FIRM and not just herself then do whatever you can to avoid taking her to meetings.

If you have noticed, other people will noticed, and she is likely to realise that eventually because at some point someone will probably end up say something utterly tactless at the christmas party or next work drinks, ironically men can be as bitchy as women at work, she's probably already known by some of the guys as oompa loompa or similar.

Mrsjay at ooompa loompa.
I like the idea of HR giving general advice, that way it doesn't sound too personal.

What is professional services?

Are you prostitutes?

I would have thought being orange was ok if you're a prostitute?

Bejeezus - it has many similarities. Including charging by the hour . Law, accountancy and the like.

I'm sure that the oldest profession would not object to anyone being orange. It's much more tolerant and less uptight than other professions.

As part of an audit I was doing I once interviewed the Chief Exec/Owner of a company. She was bright tango orange, had vivid auburn hair, more make up than the Chanel counter and was wearing a purple leopardskin suit . But she was shit hot, knew every in and out of her business and was worth a fortune. Her staff adored and respected her and she ran a very happy workplace.

So.. it bothers me a bit with all this judgemental stuff about her appearance. If she's good, she's good. We aren't in the 1950s anymore. Maybe rather than the 'orange person' having to be spoken to perhaps the clients should be allowed to judge her on her merits, false eyelashes and all. I should probably add that I have also interviewed many male CEs/Senior Managers with terminal dandruff/body odour/halitosis that could kill/wearing suits that looked like they came from Oxfam's bargain bin. It didn't occur to me to judge them on appearance as far as their professional ability. Why should a woman be judged cos she's overdone the St Tropez? Same as when I've done recruitment interviewing. I'd rather have an orange person who interviews well and shows some initiative and ambition that a corporate type who just gives predictable plodding responses.

Hilary Devey from Dragon's Den looks somewhat 'unconventional' but bugger me, she could buy and sell most of us on here!

Just tell her the truth, she looks unprofessional, a bit icky and the clients fear that the gunk will come off on them. She needs to go home and wash herself and stop dying herself orange. If she must self tan, there are lighter shades that would look natural if only a small amount were applied.

She needs to know that there is an expectation for her to look clean and tidy and tangoeing herself affects the ability of others to take her seriously.

She won't break upon hearing the truth, if she has any sense she will be grateful for the advice.

I was once asked to wear higher cut tops as 'the men found it distracting'. I complied but was bemused as it was one of the women that complained!

I think you need to say something. Busters you sound great, but the fact of the matter is, first impressions count and I think it would be very rare that 'dandruff/body odour/halitosis that could kill/wearing suits that looked like they came from Oxfam's bargain bin' would not be commented on negatively from time to time.

I would also want to know if my overall look was holding me back in my profession.

Did Hilary Devey wear odd clothes and dye herself orange for her first job out of uni? Probably not. I think when we are millionaires with our own company then we can be as eccentric and out there and orange as we like without fear of recrimination!

I'm glad someone else asked the "What are professional services?" Question! And to quote that great comedy 'Still Game: 'That's no skin, that's RIND!'