Not to want to take an Orange Person with me to a business meeting?

[Hopefullyrecovering]

The business is professional services. We went out to a client and the graduate in our team came with me. She was bright orange. Literally bright orange. I could see the client visibly wondering whether or not the orange would rub off onto him during the handshake. It looked grotesque and thoroughly unprofessional. There was an accompanying issue of shedloads of make-up. Which was similarly unprofessional This girl does not need it. She is perfectly nice-looking (I believe although there was so much orange, and fake lashes etc that it is difficult to tell)

So, AIBU? And if IANBU, how on earth am I going to raise this issue?

I think you need to be honest with her. I once had to have a conversation with a trainee about his 'designer stubble'. I went with "I think you have a great look. But I think I owe it to you to warn you that this is a massively conservative profession and some clients and older partners will make snap judgements if you don't conform to what they expect someone in our profession to look like. They would generally expect you to be either clean shaven or with neat facial hair." Could you go along that line? I think, if it will be holding her back professionally (as this guy's certainly was) you owe it to her to mention it.

The guy I spoke to was actually grateful as he came from university and really didn't get that there were people in the world who still cared about that kind of thing.

Debeez @ Alan Carr

How long has she worked with you? It may be that she's just working her way towards finding her professional image. Otherwise, what someone else said upthread about sitting her down and having a gentle chat.

would somebody with bright red lipstick be asked to tone it down ? I think if its a part of her make up routine then i dont think anybody can really ask her to tone it down

One old boss used to tell the men to go and get a cut if their hair touched their collar! And heaven help them if they didn't have a tie.

When I am going to important client meetings with my much younger team (sad but true) we always have a discussion about dress and behaviour before we go. Its just part of them learning the game

I am the same pekka. I'm small and thin so I get all types of conments about putting 'meat on my bones'.
Loads of make-up does look ridiculous as do many people. Perhaps compliments about how she'd look amazing more naturally coloured, but apart from that there's not much you can do.

Bless her.
It really is a dreadful look isn't it.
I don't know what to sy though.
I can't stand people telling me how I should look. I would feel a hypocrite if I did it to someone else.
However tempting

TBH most makeup looks unnecessary to me - I'd love to be able to ask everyone to remove it and look normal again :o

YABU and pretty nasty imo. "I could see the client visibly wondering whether or not the orange would rub off" - really? How does one visibly wonder such a precise thing?

For a lot of young women, makeup provides confidence. It's not in your gift to undermine her, or it shouldn't be. As her superior, you're in a position to build her up so she loses the need to hide behind big eyelashes.

I probably should have a word

Only last year we deliberated for an hour, a whole solid hour, about whether or not we could possibly promote someone (male) who had longish hair. Not in a pony-tail-therefore-works-in-IT sort of long but over the collar long. He didn't get promoted and he did get told to have a haircut.

I seriously do not want to have this conversation though

There is a massive difference between wearing fake tan/bronzer and being orange.

Where is she on a scale between summer bronzed and David Dickenson?

some clients and older partners will make snap judgements if you don't conform to what they expect someone in our profession to look like ... is exactly the reason I've been given (more than once) for being told not to hire the best candidate who was black

This came up at my workplace with someone who was quite Goth-y. She was told she could wear whatever she wanted but that she had to accept that there might be adverse consequences, since many clients would not want someone of her appearance working with them.

I still don't know quite how I feel about that. On the one hand it is perfectly true, on the other it smacks of using other people's prejudices as a reason to restrict someone's freedom of choice. Ultimately, I suppose if you are old enough to go to work, you're old enough to decide how to look and take the consequences (fair or unfair) without anyone having to spell it out for you.

summer bronze to david dickenson

You didn't give someone a job that presumably they were best for because of their hair?
You talk about women as pretty young things?
What a load of Crap. I'm off

garlicfucker that is a completely different kettle of fish! (very shocking though and surely subject matter for its own thread!)

Do you think it is unreasonable for an employer to have any sort of dress code?

Sounds like a horrible conpany. Debating someones hair as to a promotion or not.

Actually, re the tan: You could wait until it's toned down, then say "Thank goodness your tan has worn down, it looks lovely now"

Surely there is a difference between someone who has naturally pale/dark/whatever coloured skin, and someone whose skin is an extreme shade due to their use of fake tan or makeup.

I don't think it is unreasonable to expect an employee to follow reasonable standards of dress and makeup and to project a suitable image for the company when on company business.

This is not about something that someone can't change - like very pale skin tone - but I don't think that's what the op was talking about.

That's awful garlic, but it isn't the same thing. Skin colour is something you are born with. Layering on the slap is akin to not wearing an appropriate suit or whatever. I wear clothes in the office i wouldn't be seen dead in in my personal life. It's part of professional services.

Hadn't read garlics post but ffs.

"Thank goodness your tan has worn down, it looks lovely now"

Oooh, a backhanded compliment. Personally I'd rather someone was just blunt to my face :o

She was at the David Dickinson end, that was the issue. Healthy tan would be fine. Bright orange is not fine.

And as for how the client noticed, I'll tell you how I knew he noticed. I've known him for years, literally and he looked down at his hand after the handshake then looked up at me. I got the message.

I don't see it as a separate issue, Panda, only that one form of bigotry is illegal while the other's not. Still bigotry though.