To be really narked with this FB status re vaccinations?

[catgirl1976]

A FB friends has put this as thier FB status

"How can my unvaccinated child be a risk to your vaccinated child is vaccines work?"

He has a history of putting stuff about vaccines, linking them to autism etcf.

DS is 5 months and was sent home form nursery on Tuesday with a rash and they have case of measles. DS has suspected measles so I am a little sensitive.

I have already responded to this status (and I know I should have ignored) saying "You're right vaccines don't work. Small pox got bored and went away. Correlation is causation and Daily Mail scare stories are much better than actual science."

Then someone else commented that an unvaccinated child is not a greater risk than a vaccinated child.

That narked me so I commented that they clearly don't understand how "risk" works.

There are now a few more comments on the "thread" in support of not vaccinating.

Am I irrationally annoyed by this today. Arrgh

I did refuse to let DS have the MMR booster though - he had the singles and then when he went to school he had an appointment for the mmr booster and the nurse of the surgery told me he should have that even if he had had the singles. I refused saying there was no point giving him singles if I was then going to give him the mmr booster (although granted he was a bit older by then and so his immunity would prob have been able to cope better). I did phone my specialist though just to check and he said no, not to give it to DS.

I chose to vaccinate because I have worked with a child with congenital rubella syndrome, another child with severe ASD caused by encephalitis caused by measles and various other children with entirely preventable disabilities.

Seeing it first hand, and weighing up the relative risks, I felt fine with my decision.

When DS1 got his ASD diagnosis, I decided to delay vaccination in DS2, purely out of woo and illogical fear. He had his MMR before he was 2 though, I had just wanted him to be talking first. I categorically do not think that the MMR affected DS1's ASD in anyway - I knew long before he had the jab anyway.

I have no immunity to measles, despite having been vaccinated as a child. (had to have blood tests as I was exposed while pregnant.) I don't believe vaccination is infallible, but I do believe it's the least-worst option.

My own decision not to vaccinate my DC wasn't based on pre-existing, extraordinary medical complication. Amongst scores of other reasons people give these are the most usual ime - a lack of willingness to inject a host of chemicals, some of which are known to be damaging, into a healthy body, unwillingness to give a child a live vaccine, lack of evidence wrt long-term effects of vaccination, side effects, that they sometimes don't work anyway, animal experimentation used to produce the vaccine, animal content within it and preferring the child to be an unvaccinated DC in a largely vaccinated society.

Grahamtribe I said "those who choose not to vaccinate soley because they believe.."

That means that I appreciate that there are many other reasons why people choose not to.

when I read these threads I always feel for parents.
I was lucky as when i had my dc's done it was before I had ever heard of any link with autism.
as mos parents do I made my decision based on the information I had at the time.
I am glad that because of this I was able to get them both vaccinated with out any fear.
but things have changed now and parents have a lot more information about the risks.
I do wish though there was more publicity about the risks about measles and Mumps.
just so glad I have not got to decide now.

That's intersting Graham, thank you. I had not considered the animal testing aspect etc

If rates of vaccination had been significantly lower, would this have changed your decision or made it a harder one?

You did, didn't you, HavingAMaybe. Sorry.

catgirl, if rates of vaccination had been significantly lower I still would have made the same decision.

2shoes, many people's decision not to vaccinate has nothing to do with autism. It's not always just about the MMR either - although most of these threads do seem to focus on it in particular.

Thanks Graham. Was there one factor that was more important than the others (I suppose I am asking, if there were vaccinations that hadnt been developed thorugh animal experiementation and had no animal by products, would that change things or are all the factors of similar wegiht)

Sorry for the questions - I am just finding it interesting - tell me to bugger off if I am being too nosey :)

it should be "fun" in about 15 years time, when the stupidity "fashion" of not vaccinating combined with the fact that antibiotics will not work anymore, will lead to outbreaks of incurable disease.

Can I ask people who don't vaccinate for any reason other than a previous or family history of reactions (which is v understandable) whether you allow your DC's to travel in a car? It's just the risk of harm from car travel is FAR higher than a vaccine.

You're not being nosey but ah, I didn't say whether all the factors were relevant to my decision and if not which, if any, were, catgirl. I'll just say that my decision was based on a variety of factors, all of which carried pretty much the same weight.

MrsCog, the risks of vaccinating for each individual child are unknown. The 'family history' of reactions has to start with someone.

Yes but it's also unknown every time you get in a car whether a HGV is going to hit you head on at 40mph+

Do these ppl want their own kids to get sick? I can't understand this mentality at all. Vaccinations save billions of lives, it is incredibly selfish. I don't think it should be a choice. I think vaccinations should be mandatory. It's not fair that a parent can just let a kid get ill or die because of their twisted ideology.

Hide him, he's a knob/nob (how do others spell knob/nob?)

Sounds like he's maybe trying to invoke a reaction. I mean, no one is that ignorant are they?

How is he wrong desperately? If your child is vaccinated and it works, then an unvaccinated child should not be a risk to them.

Krumbum

Thank god the UK is a country where parental choice and personal freedoms are still occasionally protected, Krum.

bumbleymummy I thought that was the reason, it was the only one I could think of.

Krum I really dont think its a case of a parent letting their kid die!! Thats a bit of a blinkered way of looking at it. It's down to parental choice - they research the facts and make a judgement call.

You also cannot compare vaccinations to driving in a car also, that is just a ridiculous comparison to make.

Vaccinations are a very emotive subject, each has their own view, right in their own eyes and we will never all agree!

Bumbleymummy yes you're right - they are not a risk once vaccinated, but what about people with babies under 1 who are going to vaccinate - they don't have a choice. The thought of my 9 week old catching measles is terrifying and people not vaccinating makes it more likely.

bumbleymummy, in general yes, but that doesn't include those too young to be vaccinated or those who cannot be jabbed for medical reasons but who would otherwise want to be.

It also doesn't include those for whom the vaccination hasn't worked.

I do trust that all the anti-freedom of choicers (as opposed to the pro vaccinators, who have every right to their own choice too) and their kids are regularly tested to ensure that they have not lost their immunity and that the vaccination worked in the first place?

Of course you can compare the risk between different activities/things your DC undertake - that's the whole point of mathematical risk!!

Family history of reactions to some vaccines (especially the historic pertussis - whooping cough - vaccine) is largely irrelevant as many vaccines have changed over the years. A family history of reaction to a vaccine previously is not a contraindication to vaccination.

Vaccination does work - if it didn't then we wouldn't do it. There will always be a number of individuals that can't/shouldn't be vaccinated, and of course individaul vaccine response is complex and variable.

Most vaccines aren't designed to provide lifelong immunity - they are designed and scheduled to provide immunity for the period that the baby/child/teen/adult is most at risk of the disease.

But Graham- you are relying on people like me (who had similar worries and a child with ASD) to vaccinate in order to create enough herd immunity to protect your child. Effectively I'm giving you the freedom to say no with none of the risk.