To be really narked with this FB status re vaccinations?

[catgirl1976]

A FB friends has put this as thier FB status

"How can my unvaccinated child be a risk to your vaccinated child is vaccines work?"

He has a history of putting stuff about vaccines, linking them to autism etcf.

DS is 5 months and was sent home form nursery on Tuesday with a rash and they have case of measles. DS has suspected measles so I am a little sensitive.

I have already responded to this status (and I know I should have ignored) saying "You're right vaccines don't work. Small pox got bored and went away. Correlation is causation and Daily Mail scare stories are much better than actual science."

Then someone else commented that an unvaccinated child is not a greater risk than a vaccinated child.

That narked me so I commented that they clearly don't understand how "risk" works.

There are now a few more comments on the "thread" in support of not vaccinating.

Am I irrationally annoyed by this today. Arrgh

No.he usually posts things about chemtrails, the illuminati and the bilderberg group

Catgirl in theory due to herd immunity if enough people vaccinate (95%? Sorry can't remember the exact statistic) then actually an unvaccinated child shouldn't pose any risk. They have to catch the infection from somewhere to start with.

However.

I can't talk for other areas but I think MMR uptake is 70% ish here. Therefore an unvaccinated child could pose a risk.

My earlier comment was probably a little harsh. Not commentating on her right to vaccinate just her apparent ignorance of risks to others.

So, he's generally a fruitloop then? I'd definitely hi'de him. I have a childless friend on my list who posts stuff like 'my job is so stressful, I'm going to have children so I can stay at home and do nothing all day' etc. Hidden. Then I don't have to get cross.

Toobreathless

If they are not offering a place because of vaccinations then I would be a bit wary of sending my child there. As to do so would mean that they are going to be potentially excluding certain groups including vulnerable ones. So a bit shit really.

Or it could just be something you know nothing about

If an unvaccinated child picks up and develops the illness, he/she could pass it on to a child who had been vaccinated but where their immunity had not developed. So there is a slghtly higher risk to vaccinated children from the fact that another child is unvaccinated. But it's far, far less than the risk to the unvaccinated child, so I think the parent should be able to make that choice for their own child without being lectured for it.

But tbh it sounds like your friend picks up the latest daft story and runs with it, so I doubt you'll make much impact trying to explain why it doesn't mean that vaccinations don't work.

What genuinely puzzles me about this issue is that why don't the parents who choose not to vaccinate, solely because they believe the rubbish about it causing autism etc, realise that if enough people make that choice we won't have herd immunity anymore.
That's the herd immunity that they rely on to keep their darlings safe.
I think that's rather a short-sighted view.

yy too - If this was a parent who had weighed up the pros and cons, made thier personal choice, then whether I disagreed or not I would think "well I respect thier right to make that choice themselves"

But this is a non parent, saying the vaccinations don't work and refusing to accept that regardless of what you think about vaccinations, the fact that an unvaccinated child carries a great risk of contracting / transmitting a vaccine preventable disease than a vaccinated child is just a simple fact (assuming herd immunity has been lost to due non vaccinated children). It's not a judgement on whether you should or should not vaccinate.

And he doesnt even have children so its not even a decision he has had to make in the real world.

picnicbasket. Yes. He is. And I am going to hide him.

THank you all for calming me down :)

yanbu. Hope your baby is fine.

The illuminati I need this guy on my FB, (apart from the vaccination stuff) he sounds quite amusing!

Thanks ragged

Surely you can only feel secure in your decision not to vaccinate if everyone else is vaccinating? And doesn't that then show that you have faith in vaccinations working, since you're assuming everyone else is protected?

It's difficult to see opting out as anything other than selfish.

"What genuinely puzzles me about this issue is that why don't the parents who choose not to vaccinate, solely because they believe the rubbish about it causing autism etc, realise that if enough people make that choice we won't have herd immunity anymore.
That's the herd immunity that they rely on to keep their darlings safe.
I think that's rather a short-sighted view."

You only have to read the threads on vaccination upon MN to realise that that's never going to happen. Besides that, not everyone who doesn't vaccinate their "darlings" makes that choice because they "believe the rubbish about causing autism etc". I think that's rather a short-sighted view.

HavingAMaybe
Actually that includes a whole list of misunderstanding, not keast the idea that I don't vaccinate because others do. If the whole worked were unvaccinated I would still not vaccinate DD. Because I didn't make that decision because of 'rubbish' (and neither is my DD a 'little darling'). I made it because of lots of things including, primarily, medical history.
And my GP agrees.
I guess 'rubbish' is a moveable feast.

cat people really do make up their own minds about this and wil spout it to anybody who will listen or read it . hide him he obviously believes all that he is saying and just wants to shout about it . intolerant people really piss me off ,
hope your little boy is ok of course you are not irrational you are right imo I did like your retort well done you , and the autism link was dismissed as rubbish a few years ago they had no proof,

Could I ask (without starting any bashing), why the people who didn't vaccinate chose to? Am genuinely curious but obviously if you'd rather not say thats fine. I havent been on any vaccination threads so don't know the main "against" arguments if its not the autism linkage

Thanks Mrsjay x

Mine weren't vaccinated until older due to bad family history of reactions (fits(me), stopping breathing (sis)etc), but I would never dream of trying to put other people off vaccinating, most people don't have an adverse family history, even with our history the official line was to vaccinate. In fact if he is against vaccinating his (hypothetical) children, then he should be encouraging everyone else to vaccinate, so his children benefit from herd immunity.

Have to say was not sure about MMR until my friend who is a doctor said these are the facts about the risks and these are what can happen if they are unvaccinated and catch measles. She was entirely non judgemental but says if you can live with child who has xy or z that you could have prevented how will you feel. If you can live with the guilt then don't vaccinate. On seeing relative risks I vaccinated, this maybe an approach to try with your friend op.

catgirl out of interest if you are asking people why they chose NOT to vaccinate why did you chose TO vaccinate your children?

Too - I chose to as the only risk I was particulalry aware of was the MMR link to autism. When I looked into that a bit more it seemed to have been fairly convincingly disproved. I spoke to HCPs and people whose scientific opinion I trusted and decided that I felt the benefits outweighed the risks.

I have to say past the MMR / Autism issue I didnt really look into it so would be interested if there were other considerations that I was not even aware of IYSWIM

I wondered if the people who didn't vaccinate were mainly people where there was a significant or potential health risk in doing so due to medical histories or other conditions, or if it was that there was still a lot of evidence to support the autusim link that I had not seen or if there were other concerns I wasn't aware of.

That was my reason for asking

I was always in favour of the MMR UNTIL I got the slip for DS's appointment and I just couldnt do it. I did however, get him the single vaccinations. I am sure the MMR is fine but there was just that tiny shred of doubt in my mind, even a 0.00001% chance of it harming DS was too much so we just paid for the singles. I dont regret it and would do that again. However, if it had been a choice between the MMR and nothing at all then he would have had the MMR!

and catgirl - yes for me it was the autism link that put the doubt in my mind.

Oh - just to note DS hasn't had the MMR yet as he is only 5 months, but when I was looking a vaccinations full stop, this was the only real issue I had heard of, so when I felt it had been disproved, I felt reassured about vaccinations generally - hope that makes sense.

I will still have some level of trepidation when he has the MMR I think, even though logically I am happy with the choice. I may even go for the singles just to get rid of the 0.000001% that betty mentions and will no doubt look into everything again just to be sure.

Well it is true that an unvaccinated child should not pose a risk to a vaccinated one. If the vaccinated child DOES contract the disease then effectively they were unvaccinated too and were also posing a risk to others.

Vaccines don't always work as well as they are supposed to. (it's why more and more 'boosters' have to be introduced) The whooping cough vaccine has been shown to only be effective for about 4 years (some studies have shown less) so its going to pretty much impossible to create herd immunity when the majority of older children and adults are not immune.