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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think I'm too old for this passive-aggressive nonsense?

106 replies

PrincessTeacake · 08/05/2012 18:35

I've talked about this a bit on here before, so bear with me please!

I'm a sort-of unofficial mother figure for a group of girls. I joined the group because we're all into EGL fashion (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolita_fashion) and I ended up taking over it to a certain degree because a) the group is mostly teenagers who have the attention span of a gnat and b) because I work in childcare and it comes naturally to me. I had been a member of another similar group where the girls were older but I found them a bit stand-offish and rude so I left for the group I'm in now.

The fashion itself has a reputation for attracting and encouraging bitchiness within the ranks, and a lot of that comes from a certain anonymous message board which can get downright cruel. I had a confrontation with the girls of the older group because two of the younger girls from my group had their pictures posted there and I suspected the other group, because none of the international girls would have really cared enough to post them, it was a clear vendetta. Although they denied it, one girl said some really nasty things about the girls posted and another insinuated that because I was having a glass of wine on a Saturday night in my own house that I was an alcoholic and shouldn't be allowed work with children.

There's been a lot of tension since, the younger girls got posted again and the older group got the blame regardless of whether they did it or not. They said a few nasty things about me personally (which, to be fair, I'm old enough to brush off) and it's out of pure jealousy that our group is bigger and more relaxed than theirs. I also really yanked their chain lately by doing a successful stand-up set in my frills (they take the fashion deadly serious). Now we're at a standstill and I do keep seeing posts on the anon message board that are clearly from them, they can't even be subtle about it.

I just feel like I'm too old for this crap. I keep an eye on things because the younger girls are still very sensitive to this kind of thing, but I never say a bad word about the older girls, partially because it does nobody any good and partially because there's one girl in the older group I like and respect a lot who has begged me to keep a lid on any drama if I can. I encourage the younger girls not to bitch about the others too and we stay active, but it feels like so much work and I'd rather just be enjoying myself. To top it all off, I've had ongoing harassment from a person with a serious mental illness and she's trying to horn in on this drama too, but that's a whole other story.

Also, the girl who is ranking up most of the drama is near enough my age, she has a mortgage and a full-time job, surely she's too old for this crap too?

OP posts:

ExitStencilist · 08/05/2012 22:41

look it up for yourself if you want it, I'm not your researcher.

kittyandthefontanelles · 08/05/2012 22:42

Oh so you don't know then. No need to get bitey. I thought we were having a discussion. Now I'm really off.

ExitStencilist · 08/05/2012 22:43

bu bye

Teeb · 08/05/2012 22:44

I think the hobby yourself is entirely up to you, so I won't really touch on that. I do think though that if you feel these girls who are participating are too young/naive/vulnerable to take care of themselves, then perhaps you should discourage them slightly and to come back when they are a little older? You are not their mother, they can take care of themselves. Why do you feel the need to get involved? Are you a bit of a drama llama yourself op?

pictish · 08/05/2012 22:44

Methinks 'the girls' are here to give us an example of their behaviour.
How silly. I'm off to bed.

dickiedavisthunderthighs · 08/05/2012 22:49

You might want to amend the Wikipedia entry then Exit as that suggests that the movement originated in the late 1970's whereas the book was written in 1955.

noelstudios · 08/05/2012 22:52

Oo-er - just had that funny thing when you hear about something you've never heard of, and then the next day it crops up somewhere again... interesting. Only just read a thing about EGL yesterday, and then happened across it here. There is a name for this, can't remember it though.

OP - all sounds pretty pointless, I'm afraid. I'd tell her to jog on and ignore nonsense on the internet if it gets to you. Good luck!

LtEveDallas · 08/05/2012 22:53

Pictish, if that was aimed at me I'd like to say "Good God no, I'm
far too old and fat for that sort of thing" and "I wear uniform all day and a track suit all night - I wouldn't have the time or energy to dress up"

I just think its a bit off to condem a poster for doing something that does not impact on others in any way.

I like differences. I like to people watch. To see the Boden mummies, the juicy couture crowd, the suited and booted, the punks, the goths, the scummy students, the high class hookers and the mums on the school run in their PJs!

God life would be so bloody boring if we were all the same. Cardboard cutouts from fashion magazines. I've never seen this EGL style before. I think I'd be fascinated, and i like the fact that there are looks within the look.

As to the OP hanging around with kids, well she does say that it's mostly 20 something's, and we don't know how old the OP is, so...meh.

Original poster

PrincessTeacake · 08/05/2012 23:14

I'll fill in a few gaps.

*I'm 29. I look a lot younger so the fashion doesn't look ridiculous on me, if it did I would probably stop. The oldest lolita I know of personally is in her forties and still rocks it. Also, they don't make these clothes for children. Some of the sweet stuff is a little immature but there's a lot of corsetting/bustle work which would look ridiculous on a little girl.

*I read the Nabokov book a few years back. It gets its name because the girl is named Dolores, and Lolita is one of the many nicknames he gives her along with Dolly, Lola and plain old Lo. The book is a bit purple-prosey , Lolita is his 'romantic' name for her and he chose it because it sounds lyrical and reminded him of his deceased first love, who was Spanish.

*Lolita is a common name in the Mediterranean, it's a diminutive of the name Lola or Dolores, so a little like shortening Anne or Annabelle to Annie.

*Noelstudios, you may have been reading an article about Venus Angelic, she's a fairly well-known lolita who's gotten some press attention lately because of the way she dresses and how famous she is online for her make-up tutorials.

*The fashion has been around since the 1970's, it has its own brands and is sometimes emulated by western brands like Vivienne Westwood and Anna Sui, and most recently Nina Ricci.

*Most active comms have a high ratio of teens to adults, mine is no exception. I'm not the only 20-something in the group, I just sort of ended up as the designated scout leader because no-one was bothering to organize meets. I don't really feel that the younger members should be excluded because of their ages, we all get along fine. Like I've said twice now, it's not the teens causing the trouble, it's the older girls of the other group.

*Teeb, I wouldn't call myself a drama llama, but I suppose I'm a bit too protective for my own good. You're right, I'm not their mother and getting annoyed on their behalf is just frustrating.

Thank you to everybody who gave actual advice.

OP posts:

CaoNiMa · 09/05/2012 05:46

"his deceased first love, who was Spanish"

No. His first love was Annabel Lee, and she was American.

AdelaideRex · 09/05/2012 06:10

OP I'm amazed you had to re-explain it was the older group who were being bitchy, did no one read the post before jumping on the teens are bitchy bandwagon, sigh...........

SodoffBaldrick · 09/05/2012 06:52

OK, so this was just a vent really...? Because otherwise it doesn't make much sense, AIBU-wise.

OP: Am I too old for this nonsense?
MN: Yes, yes indeed you are way too old for it all. Knock it on the head. Problem solved.
OP: Oh no, I don't want to do that. Besides, I'm not too old for it at all.
MN: Okaaaaay... Glad we could help.

SodoffBaldrick · 09/05/2012 06:58

And for the record, Lolita is a classic example of misogynist victim-blaming.

Humbert is 12-year old Lolita's step-father - he becomes obsessed with her, and begins a sexual relationship with her - and yet she is notoriously portrayed as being some sort of predatory, under-age vixen...

pictish · 09/05/2012 06:59

hahaha!

I largely agree with LtEveDallas - to each their own. It's a shame that there are bitchy people involved in your hobby OP, but there's little you can do.

Have fun!

Megatron · 09/05/2012 07:27

I'm afraid I find this all utterly ridiculous.

pictish · 09/05/2012 07:28

So it is...so it is.
But it's not hurting anyone....so I don't have a problem with it.

solidgoldbrass · 09/05/2012 16:00

I find a lot of things other people do entirely ridiculous. Watching The X Factor and talking about it comes to mind. As does paying fortune tellers or any kind of woo-peddling con-artist, collecting china bunnies or playing bridge. However, it's up to them if they want to engage in a harmless way of passing time.

The biggest problem with fucking mundanes is that they don't really have hobbies, it's all passive consumerism and the struggle to be just as boring as one another, so they are always hostile to anything un-mundane because they are incapable of understanding it.

Mrsjay · 09/05/2012 16:10

this is because they are young girls id imagine not because of a ranking system with in the groups IYSWIM i work with teenage girls young adults and they can be bitchy try and rise above it and maybe guide them on how to behave if not you may have to leave your forum and not post for a while till it calms down

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 09/05/2012 16:41

Wear what you like, OP. The term is always going to cause ridicule though, you're probably aware of that and it sounds as if you don't mind what anybodies views are.

Can you not continue to meet up with the women you want to meet up with and just discard the others? At least that way you could control your exposure to the bitchiness.

NonAstemia · 09/05/2012 16:44

How fucking bizarrely hostile people have been to the OP. I can see mile upon mile of twitching buttocks from all those judgy pants wedgies.

So she likes dressing up - how does that harm any of you?

I think you need to step back a bit from the bitchiness OP, ignore ignore ignore the other group, and let your 'adopted daughters' fight their own battles. If you adopt a mother-like persona then you aren't giving them autonomy and you'll start to piss them off as well as tiring yourself out.

Pendeen · 09/05/2012 17:10

Quite agree with you NonAstemis, so many sour comments from several people unable to think beyond and above that book, the thread now reeks of stale lemon juice.

OP, the bitching from some of the girls in your group is not worth the worry.

FWIW I think the styles are lovely and would quite like to indulge sometime (and I'm also over 20).

AliceInSandwichLand · 09/05/2012 17:18

Any small, enclosed group is likely to end up with bitching IME - my DH and I between us have been involved with clubs or organisations related to sailing, cars, dogs, schools, and they've all had spats of fighting and side-taking. All you can do is try to rise above it and continue to enjoy your hobby.
And I quite agree that some of the styles are lovely and it's clearly a totally harmless way to spend your time. Sadly I am definitely too old, unless they invent a granny Lolita style...

Pandemoniaa · 09/05/2012 17:23

unless they invent a granny Lolita style...

and that, in a nutshell, is why I do steampunk!

I think, OP that you have actually outgrown the whole genre if you don't mind me saying. It's not so much a question of age, more of emotional maturity and while I'm fascinated by the clothes, I can see how easily one could outgrow this overly-girly genre. I'd also suggest that it would be more worrying if someone failed to outgrow it.

solidgoldbrass · 09/05/2012 18:38

Pandemoniaa Steampunk's fab and bloody hell aren't the men fit?

NonAstemia · 09/05/2012 19:11

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