Aibu? to be pissed off at this: "The cost and social implications of using an infant milk should be considered when deciding how to feed your baby."

[Selyna]

WTF do Hipp mean by social implications?

Both methods of feeding a baby are acceptable so fuck off with the whole acting like ff is poison! my dd is perfectly fine but i hate this constant making me feel like a failure because i failed to bf although i tried so so hard!

Well I just think you can live a very healthy life and lots can still happen to you. I am sure my dd is getting a whole lot of shit through my breastmilk I drink water though lead pipes, eat things with pesticides and what not on, according to the daily mail everything I eat is slowly killing me whether its fruit/veg or whatever.

I think if you do it then good on you but I dont see the point in guilt tripping others about it. I just see it as worry about your own life.

But Shagmundfreud, scientific advice seems to change on an almost weekly basis, depending on what newspaper you read. Sometimes parents can't do right for doing wrong. When I was little mums were encouraged to put a bit of baby rice in the milk to satisfy hungry babies, when my own were little weaning at 4 months was the norm - now it's 6 months. That could change again.

No one disputes that bm is ideal, but that doesn't mean formula milk is bad.

I don't think Shagmund has missed the point at all.

I agree that bf can be harder for some people for a variety of reasons and the positives of continuing can become outweighed by the negatives of continuing in that particular relationship but it doesn't change that in most circumstances breast milk is better nutritionally for babies than formula milk. There are some people who don't realise this because it is viewed as more normal to bottle feed in our society and until you are pregnant or have a newborn you don't realise generally the debate involved.

I don't agree with not educating people because of possible guilt though. Surely we all need information to make the best choice for ourselves and our families ?

margoandjerry but if you're going to include a mother's time for BFing then you would also have to include a mother's time for FFing, which would include making up bottles, washing and sterilising bottles, making the trip to the shop to buy formula and so on.

I'd be surprised if the outcome of such a calculation did not find that FFing was still the more expensive option.

(whatever that choice ends up being)

I said she missed the point because her paragraph that I cut and paste argued that people FF if they don't really attribute much value to the baby's feeding and don't really think about the other implications. That's might be true for some people but it was not at all true for me or most of the other people on this thread. It's also the kind of thing that annoys us so worth not saying because it ends up frustrating the people who actually agree that BF is important.

thefurryone no because anyone can do that work. The economic significance is that only one person can do the job in question which means it cannot be substituted for a cheaper form of labour (DH for example ).

Where I live (posh part of Edinburgh) BF is absolutely the norm. I felt hugely pressured to BF - to be fair, I really wanted to BF but when the reality set in and I realised that in fact I hated it, I was really torn.

I mean look at me - aged 40, uni graduate, first baby - and FF? WTF?

I fit the BF profile in every way except for actually enjoying it.

Margoandjerry makes a very good point about the 'real cost', ie factoring in the BF mother's time. In my case, it was my time and my mental health.

I hear a lot on here about the support that BF mothers should have. I had all of it - wonderful midwives who let me stay in hospital for 3 days to establish feeding, as many home visits as I asked for, HV visits etc. Not to mention the numerous breastfeeding clinics and cafes run in my area.

Are these services free? To me, they were. But in a wider sense, no of course they're not.

I dunno. I think BF is a wonderful biological function, and I must admit I have a wee smile whenever I see a BF mother. But for something so cheap, easy, natural etc it certainly requires a lot of support.

I suppose the time argument comes from the fact that only the mum can feed a bf baby, but with a ff baby the other parent could be more involved in feeding.

furry - anybody can make up bottles and administer them. Even men! It's fab. MILs love it too, I find :)

MorrisZapp you are me. I wasn't supposed to be one of those mothers. I mean I went to baby massage and everything

Now you can find me on the McDonalds thread, arguing in favour of a Happy Meal every now and again so I've clearly lost my old identity thoroughly.

What a peculiar label

I read it as
FF is more expensive
BF is more difficult from a "social implications" POV

Seems everyone has read it differently
Therefore it is an unclear and silly label

The bf/ff debate comes up sooo much. Is it just here in britain it is such an "issue?" When I say "issue"I mean guilt and feeling the need to justify from mothers who are unable to bf, sometimes superiority and smugness from women who do breastfeed, defiance from women who ff, disgust from women who ff towards bf... It goes on and on! And I have witnessed all of those opinions. I have friends who have no intention of bf whatsoever and don't think anything will change their mind. I know someone who thinks bf is "disgusting" and another who said "formula fed babies have a certain fat look".

I just wonder in other european countries if there is so much of a divide of those who bf and those who don't. And in countries where they have better bf rates, why is that? I mixed feed my ds and did so with my dd so I'm a bit of a fence sitter I think both ways of feeding are acceptable and both have pros and cons. I work in a childrens centre and the mums who bf are mainly the older mums and the asian and african mums. The younger mums tend to ff. A lot of the younger mums are put off by "preachy older hippy women looking down their noses at people who don't bf" their words NOT mine. This came from a project we did to encourage more mums to bf.

Yes, but then you have to account for the opportunity cost as those other people would then be unable to do other activities whilst they were doing FFing relating tasks.

Also how would you add into the equation one of the best things about BFing, that once you've got the hang of it you can sneakily mumsnet on your phone whilst doing it, or catch up on all of those DVD boxsets during the early days of being stuck to the sofa

"But Shagmundfreud, scientific advice seems to change on an almost weekly basis, depending on what newspaper you read"

Science is always moving forward. There will be new research over the years that will change what we understand about feeding.

This is true in relation to every area of health.

It's no reason to discard what we currently believe to be best practice, if it's based on the most up to date evidence.

Incidentally, most reporting of scientific research in national newspapers is lamentable. Really not advisable to base important decisions on it.

Best to look for reviews of the evidence done by reputable organisations like the NHS and Cochrane index, who have the facilities for assessing the quality and reliability of individual studies and looking at them in the context of research into infant feeding as a whole.

Winky someone else complained about the "bf is free" line as it implies the woman's time is worth nothing

I think you are right shagmundfreud. We should base what we do on current scientific thinking and there seems to be evidence to support bf as the better route. But Karma was making a good point too - we mustn't be too beholden to scientific evidence because so much is still unknown and the medical profession has not done itself any favours in the past with its pronouncements on "refridgerator mothers causing autism"

Shagmundfreud - I've given up on newspapers for the time being. i just go straight to MN, which is the source of all knowledge and wisdom

"As for breastfeeding is free implies women's time is worth nothing"

Well, someone has to spend time feeding the baby whichever method is chosen. Trying to make out that it implies women's time is worth nothing is looking for offence where there is none, IMO.

MorrisZapp yes but if you are going to include a cost on the mothers time then you have to include a cost on the time for everyone involved.

ButteryBiscuitBase that attitude is really interesting, and I can easily see where it comes from. When I was looking for help with BFing both before and after DS was born I definitely noticed that much of the advice came from the attachment parenting spectrum which can be off putting if you're not that way inclined.

I found it particularly difficult in regards to night feeds as I really really didn't want to co-sleep and was desperate to get DS into his own cot, 'The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding' pretty much implied that I was guilty of neglect and that DS would end up starving if I chose this route. It was pretty crap feeling so harshly judged when I was just seeking help for what I considered to be the best way to feed my baby.

Exactly the point I was making soupdragin. Breastfeeding can be pretty much free. Few of us need to physically buy more food. Feeding bras are nice but not essential. Breastpads, if needed, not too expensive. Not aware of any additional requirement for special breastfeeding soap. Expressing s NOT necessary, and can be free/low cost anyway. Yes, u have to spend tome feeding the baby but there isn't free childcare for ff mums, meaning they, in contrast, have loads of free time.

Sounds to me like they are deliberately trying to stir up angst in FF mothers to pit them in a battle against breastfeeding. Clever them.
Just ignore it and don't get in a twist about it.

Breastfeeding isn't easy even when it goes well. I'm convinced that in the early days it takes more of your time and is much harder than FF but later on it's actually less hassle. I don't think anyone should be made to feel guilty for trying BFing and deciding it's not for them

I didn't feel any pressure to breastfeed. In my area there were no NHS antenatal classes and no breastfeeding support groups I was made aware of. Most people I knew formula fed. Even the community midwife told me not to worry as she had seen to many women with poor mental health as a result of feeling they should carry on breastfeeding ( I did have a history of MH problems in my notes). Interesting how that contasts with morriszapps experience as I didn't meet the normal BF profile nor did the area I lived in (large council estate)

Thefurryone I was 18 when I had dd and was a bit embarrassed to admit I bf in certain circles with other young mums, the flipside being when I was with the older mums at baby groups I was embarrassed to say I ff! I come across more people who have strong opinions one way or another than those who feel indifferent towards either!

If you are FF, whoever is sitting down watching tv can feed. Therefore opportunity cost is practically zero. Whereas when the mother is the only one who can feed the opportunity cost is positive almost every time. There are times when you want to be sitting down watching tv so your OC is minimal but we all remember the times when we wanted to be doing anything but feeding (like when sitting in the loo, to pluck an example at random) and that's when women's time is counted at zero when it shouldn't be)