Aibu? to be pissed off at this: "The cost and social implications of using an infant milk should be considered when deciding how to feed your baby."

[Selyna]

WTF do Hipp mean by social implications?

Both methods of feeding a baby are acceptable so fuck off with the whole acting like ff is poison! my dd is perfectly fine but i hate this constant making me feel like a failure because i failed to bf although i tried so so hard!

I find it weird that people seem to be saying that breastfeeding is more socially acceptable than formula feeding. I get that some people consider it to be acceptable, but I know LOADS of people who have been given a LOT of grief (by family, partner and friends) for breastfeeding, because they consider breastfeeding to be 'wrong'. I see and hear about a lot of this. And I have witnessed the disgust of a lot of people when I revealed that I was breastfeeding my own baby. Perhaps it just depends on which circles you move in. My current circle, to be fair, is full of breast-feeders, but there are also lots of formula feeders and no-one seems to be feeling judged about doing either.

I find the calorie argument amusing. I ate cake when I was breastfeeding and lots of it. I have a feeling that if I had been formula feeding I would have still eaten lots of cake.

At home + newborn baby + lack of sleep = cake

I don't think many BFing mothers had to alter their shopping list to accommodate the extra calories.

Joyful, sweet of you to worry about how I come across, but I'm a big girl now and can worry about myself. Please restrict yourself to telling your children what words they can use.

To me this comes over as a very clumsy way of saying think about the social pressures that affect your feeding choice.

This probably goes straight over the heads of the Mum's who need this advice and deeply offends those like the OP who struggle to BF.

I remember being furious that formula can't be discounted and you don't get points for it.

It was just another kick in the teeth that DD1 would not BF.

Now I'm kind of glad she didn't because DD2 was pretty easy to BF and I'd be terribly judgy of FF if she was an only child.

Am I the only person who found that bf made me feel really hungry. I know you only need a few hundred extra calories, but I'm sure I had fa more, because I was just so hungry.

My understanding of 'social implications' is simply 'your child is more likely to get sick if you use this milk instead of your own' and that this brings with it implications for yours and your child's quality of life.

But yes - it is an interesting phase and is open to interpretation.

Personally I come over all when I hear mothers bleating about formula being seen as 'poison'. FFS - 95% of babies in the UK will have had formula by the time they're a year old. It's hardly a niche product.

As for the 'extra calories' you apparently need if you're breastfeeding - well most people in the UK throw out almost as much food as they dish up to their families. I don't believe for one minute that breastfeeding mums spend more on food. They just throw out less. And maybe most of them are using the calories from the extra fat they put on their arses and thighs during pregnancy (yes - that's what it's there for).

Have to say - I find the whole tone and focus of these discussions about feeding choices a bit dispiriting, because they're always the same. The sense that it's a consumer choice like any other - it's all about a mother's feelings, likes and dislikes, what's convenient or socially acceptable to her. And a failure to acknowledge that actually the choice affects TWO people - and one who is most profoundly affected by the choice - the baby - their experience and preference, well that doesn't seem to ever really form part of the discussion. And if you draw attention to this aspect of the subject then you're accused of guilt tripping. It's like: 'I'm talking about infant feeding! How dare you bring the baby into it!'.

I suppose the bottom line is whether you think it matters to babies how they're fed. I think it does. I think bf and ff are fundamentally different. Not just the milk, but how it happens. And I don't think they're equally good. I think if you start from that position and you try to consider things from all perspectives (baby's as well) then you do see things differently. Doesn't mean you think all mothers should breastfeed, but it certainly makes you want to discuss it in a different way.

Ciske I think that was a pretty ridiculous comment tbh! Keeping clean and fresh while bf is pretty easy!

Sure, there are some 'start up' costs when bf, but these are far less than ff. A packet of reusable breast pads costs about £2 from Boots, and a couple of nursing bras. This is far less than a load of bottles, steriler and all the other bumph that ff mothers are sold.

As for the needing to eat more, that depends entirely according to the person. I don't think I ate much more, just lost weight after giving birth a lot quicker than I would have otherwise, and if you do need a few extra calories, it is far less than the cost of formula milk.

startail, there it is, "I'd be terribly judgy of FF if she was an only child'.

So many people haven't had a bad BF experience like startail and so they do judge. Last week I had tears in my eyes when FF'ing DC2 at this bloody toddler group. I passed it off as feeling tired/baby blues. To be honest though, part of me hoped they would see how upset I am about FF'ing and therefore not judge me quite as much.

But shag, do you not think that I consider my baby every time I FF her? Do you not think that I beat myself up knowing she is missing out on the health benefits of BF as well as the closeness that BF brings between a mother and child?

I cannot believe some of the stuff I read on this thread. "Smug Nazi" etc.

Goodness me, I believe that makes you as bad as any over enthusiastic preachy bfer.

There is still an awful lot of misinformation about breast feeding. I firmly believe that it's important all women have all the correct information before they make their decision - if they are able to make a choice that is, given the huge problems some have with bfing.

Weird generalising statement - that bm is not free because you have to buy the calories and put them in the mother. I for one didn't eat loads when bfing.

Way to miss the point Shagmundfreud.

I suppose the bottom line is whether you think it matters to babies how they're fed. I think it does. I think bf and ff are fundamentally different. Not just the milk, but how it happens. And I don't think they're equally good. I think if you start from that position and you try to consider things from all perspectives (baby's as well) then you do see things differently

How loud do people have to say that they do think BF is important but struggled/couldn't do it/had other difficulties that made it too hard? I practically killed myself to BF because I felt like you did (before I saw the other side) and didn't "get" why people didn't get it. Now I wonder why the hell I gave myself such a nightmare over it. I was only too aware of the baby's perspective and nearly gave myself PND with the pressure I put on myself. It desperately mattered to me how my baby was fed and actually I think I was slightly mad in that regard.

I never get this its just something I see on mumsnet.

I am bfing now dd is 3 weeks and has had a cold for 2 weeks off that and she has had nothing but breast milk.DD was in nursery from 4 months and hadnt been sick at all until sh got there and wasnt sick that much there considering she started so young.

I work in a nursery and we have had loads of sickly bfed children and formula children that hardly ever get sick. I personally think its all a bit overexagerated and doesnt make that much of a difference, and I decided to do it as its cheap and Im tight

I have never in rl met anyone that thinks someone has 'failed' as they havent breastfed. From what I gather on here it seems to be more prevelant in the London, older mums, competitive types that seem to see it as something impressive.

Well I think that the world would be a much nicer place if we all considered the social implications of all of our choices not just how we feed our babies. After all we don't all just live in our own little bubbles. The social implications of formula feeding would include many things that have absolutely nothing to do with infant nutrition such as the environmental impact of production and waste disposal.

However, when it comes to BFing there is a strong message trying to encourage women to do it which is backed up with very little support, which is rubbish and is what actually leads to such low levels of BFing and such high levels of guilt.

I also find it odd that so many of you think that formula feeding is the default socially acceptable choice, it certainly isn't where I live. I BF past 6 months, when apparently according to most people it is no longer necessary (can't think where they got that idea ) and for the first 3 months of this pregnancy, I know a lot of people think I'm a bit of an odd one for this.

vigglewiggle I also found that lots of my formula feeding friends were just as fond of cake as I was

Shagmundfreud - you've just done the very thing that people get upset about, which is to imply a ff mother doesn't think about what is best for her baby.

In terms of taste preferences, my dc seemed to like the ff as much as the bf. There was certainly no reluctance on their part. Not sure what you mean by experience - mine were cuddled during feeding, whether it was breast milk or formula. Might have misunderstood what you meant there, though.

Actually it's troo dat. I bf, as did some friends while others ff. I also went to lots of different groups etc and I never ever heard anyone ever be judgey about anyone else.

Maybe it's all made up.

Having stopped BF my first 3 DC at a young age, when I didn't want to and switching to FF, I am never sure why those who FF feel that it's not socially acceptable or feel victimsed. I am especially suprised that people think a company that make formula may want to put people off it or upset them.

Less than half of babies are EBF by 6 weeks old, around 1% are EBF by 6 months old, so as most babies are in fact, FF, where the heck does this 'disapproval' come from?

I have managed to continue to EBF DD this time (Hoorah!) and have met with more questions, disapproval and odd comments than I ever got when FF.

As for 'social' implications. Well, the manufacturing, transportation, packaging etc of formula isn't without impact on the environment and as children who were FF are overall/statisticslly more likely to have health problems later in life then the potential cost of FF to the NHS isn't zero either. (and yes yes, I am sure everyone's FF child is perfectly fine. Mine are too, but that doesn't mean I think the evidence is bollocks)

Clean and presentable when breastfeeding
As for breastfeeding is free implies women's time is worth nothing. Well no. Of course not. What a strange thing to say. Do you think women who ff don't spend time with their babies and even feed them?

I'm not missing the point margoandjerry.

One in three babies in the UK don't get a SIP of breast milk because their mothers choose never to put their baby to the breast.

and many mothers who do breastfeed do not intend to do it for more than a few weeks because they see ff as the normal way to feed a baby. And it is in the UK - at least for babies who are more than a month old. I'm not criticising those mothers - they are doing something which is culturally and socially NORMAL and ACCEPTABLE.

Mothers who have a terrible time breastfeeding often don't get sympathy and support because at a social level breastfeeding isn't valued (whatever levels of NHS breastfeeding promotion suggest) and therefore breastfeeding problems aren't considered worthy of the same sort of expert input as other medical difficulties that really impact on your happiness and quality of life.

That's why they're happy to send out poorly staff to assist mothers with breastfeeding in the first few weeks of motherhood, when they really, really need proper help.

MidnightMoscow - I appreciate that many mothers can't breastfeed and grieve for that. Doesn't change what I say about the tone of much of the discussion of this subject.

I got loads of sympathy and support. I went to loads of breastfeeding clubs and lived in a thoroughly middle class area where everyone was bf.

I was in the perfect place to bf. I had no social or cultural impediments. I had the support, the will and the right environment - and still I couldn't. Because for some people it's hard. Why is that last bit so difficult to understand?

If you come across any 'social inplications' to your formula feeding deal with them with an eff and an off.

I have done both (BF and FF) as I couldn't BF my first for very long. I didn't come across negative attitudes either way. Personally, I think warnings on tins are an insult to parents intelligence and only serve to make people feel guilty. I think breastfeeding could be better promoted by investing in more support for women who choose to do it.

Please try to stop feeling bad and enjoy your baby.

"I work in a nursery and we have had loads of sickly bfed children and formula children that hardly ever get sick. I personally think its all a bit overexagerated and doesnt make that much of a difference"

Well - just goes to show how misleading anecdotal evidence is.

When anyone brings it up in relation to infant feeding I remind myself of the fact that it took DECADES to make a connection between smoking and cancer, and smoking during pregnancy and preterm birth/restricted fetal growth. Sometimes what you see isn't what you get.

Thank goodness for science.

HullyGully I wonder if a lot of the perceived judgement is actually projected based on a mothers own insecurities. That was certainly my experience when DS was very young and not just about how I fed him.

I was actually really surprised when a FFing friend of mine confessed to feeling quite guilty that she hadn't given BFing more of a go and that she did worry what people thought. I'd always been really jealous of how she seemed so secure in her decision to switch, whereas I felt an absolute mess as I tried to struggle through the very difficult first few months.

This is not to say there aren't social and cultural impediments. There are and we should tackle those. But this idea that with encouragement and professionalism and good will, everyone will bf and will want to, is just not right.

"As for breastfeeding is free implies women's time is worth nothing"

No it doesn't imply that at all.

This isn't about a woman's time. This is about the cost of formula milk vs the cost of bm.

Calculating a woman's time feeding her baby isn't really part of this equation.

Um but it should be.

If you are going to talk about the cost (which bf-ers often do as one of its merits) then you need to look at the whole cost.

I see that it's a startling suggestion and it's not one I particularly agree with because I don't think bf / ff is best viewed as an economic decision but if you are going to go down the economic route then you have to do it properly.

(breastfeeder and economist)