to be upset that DD came home from her dads wearing a Muslim headscarf?

[kunoichi]

My ex is Muslim (I'm "non-religious" though I was christened as a child). We had an awful messy break up, courts and worse, and after three years we've finally got to a stage where we can be amicable, or so I thought. Through court and all, we'd agreed our daughter would observe both of our traditions (not eating pork, observing Eid, etc for her Dad, celebrating Christmas with me, etc). Headscarves had never been mentioned throughout our relationship together or at any point when we were discussing DDs upbringing.

DD is 7 now, she visits her dad every weekend and seemed very happy with the situation. But Sunday last she came home wearing a muslim headscarf which covered her hair, neck and chest.

Admittedly it was pouring down with rain and my first assumption was that was the reason she was wearing it (her coat didn't have a hood). But when I spoke to her about it, she said she wanted to wear it all the time, to look pretty and be like her step-mum (my ex remarried a Muslim lady just after the divorce was finalised).

I'm rather upset by this. Since the day she was born, my stance was that DD should be able to enjoy both her parents cultures, and I thought my ex agreed with this. Headscarves have always been out of the question. I personally feel that it's a symbol of oppression (women wear them to prevent men being tempted by them) so seeing my beautiful intelligent 7 year old wearing one almost broke my heart.

What's worse is that yesterday and today she didn't want to go to school because she can't wear the scarf (it is bright blue, and her uniform dictats that if a girl HAS to wear one, it must be black). DD has always LOVED school, and I would go so far as to say she is a gifted child.

Buying her a black one would go against my principles. Both DD and I are respectable people anyway (we don't wear sexualised clothes, respect ourselves as women, etc), and I would feel hurt if she suddenly decided she must wear a headscarf and cover herself to her wrists and ankles when there truly is no need for her to do this.

I'm very anxious about this. My ex is the type to get fired up and after the awful experiences (for both me, DD and my son) when we separated I'm really worried about how best to approach this.

Does anyone else here have any experience of something like this and how best I should approach it? Any advice would be very welcome right now. I'm on the verge of tears and am well aware that my anxieties are troubling DD too =(

Novack - unless a baseball cap is part of the OP's dd's school uniform, your analogy doesn't really work.

Have skipped from the first page to the last, but was thinking, as I did, pretty much the same as Novack writes in her last two sentences.

I don't see how the analogy hinges on whether or not a baseball cap is part of a school uniform or not. The headscarf is, in fact, catered for. So it's not only prettier, but permissible as a part of her school uniform. Win-win.

I agree with those who are saying that the wee girl should be allowed to experiment without any big dramas. It'll work itself out in the end, but creating a massive scene about it will damage your relationship with her.

Novack's suggestion that the OP is jealous of the second wife is offensive and spiteful.

I kind of agree with you, there, edam. That was uncalled for... however, I do agree with the rest!

Sorry but I do think this is somthing yu should have know was going to rear its head as he is a Muslim

Their is no such thing as a moderate Muslim or moderate Christian. You either are or yu are not

If yu were married still this ots likey would have been brought up you will have to possibly face her not wanting to wear wester clothing at all possibly rejecting Christmas ECt all together

Frankly you have know idea what is said when she stays for the weekend

Personally I would explain to her that head scarfs are for teenagers and use the Internet to back up what you are saying show her that it's not needed till one starts the "change"

If still no joy tel her it's a blck one for school or nothing to be hones I am pretty sure if heir are not many girls who wear this then with in a week it will be gone and only put on at weekends to please the other family

Oh and FYI their is not such thing as being half Muslim its not a race

She is half Asian or half Arab but has a dule religious ID

YADBVU & massively over thinking this,

please don't pass that onto your DD, she deserves better than that, your reaction is based on YOUR problems with your ex, not reality.

@ 7, Muslim girls don't wear head scarves, not unless its something they choose to do to play act grown up, you know, the same sort of thing as DD wearing your high heels around the house - I'm sure you'd be pretty outraged & think your ex was an out & out looney if he started accusing you of breaking an agreement & dressing DD as a hooker for playing dressing up in a way you saw as normal & in this instance practical too, as it kept your DD dry when she had no hood :)

My own DD has several devout Muslim friends, none of the DDs, not even the strictest whose family won't even allow her School trips wear scarfs yet & they are older than 7, that won't happen for a few years yet.

Trust me, I've just come back from Egypt & Jordan, where I also met several Arabic Israeli families, I was quite taken aback that all the little ones, tiniest toddlers included all wore the teeniest of sparkly, colourful Paris Hiltonesque Bikinis, something I wouldn't usually let DD do, whilst the mums all wore full Birkinis, in a weird way it was quite refreshing to see.

Your DD has spent the weekend with her stepmum, whose idea of glamour is a colourful scarf, your DD simply sees that as "grown up" is curious & is mimicking her - no big deal

If YOU make an issue of it, its YOU who will be making it a big deal.

Oh dear this is why its important to discuss these issues before your in a relationship with them, now you have a child and she will be in the middle. Clearly OP has not got the guts to stop her child from doing something which she does not believe in. Your ex-partner should have at least discussed the issue with you beforehand then you could have agreed jointly , now you will look bad if you say no. I think you've been out manoeuvred so you have no choice.

rockinhippy your a fool, if your child came back from your ex partner wearing a head scarf you would have something to say about it, the OP has every right to be upset, this is something her DD is stating she wants to wear all the time with no previous conversation between the parents. Communication is what parenting is about, even if OP said yes its fine at least they should have discussed and agreed, it sounds like OP's ex has no respect for her whatsover.

& you surmise all that from what what exactly thunder (Ignoring your first statement of course )

Neither you, nor for that matter the OP know what or wasn't said at the exes home, that is purely conjecture - I'm looking at the FACT a 7 year old girl is taking an interest in & has come home, in the rain wearing a head scarf like her Stepmum - whether that is a big issue or not is down to how the OP deals with it.

Though, yes, you are right it is something that they should have discussed as mixed cultural parents, but as it now stands & DD living with her none Muslim Mum, when the time comes that she would, as a young Muslim woman be expected to wear a head scarf, the choice will ultimately lie with the DD, which is how it should be, & equally why it is also important that the OP handles this the right way & therefore NOT make a big issue out of it based on her own beliefs & risk alienating the DD.

At the end of the day, this will be the DDs CHOICE not Mothers, nor Fathers & that is exactly how it should be, but make it a big issue now, make the DD feel she is in the wrong & when the Teen raises her head, she will kick back at Mum & do as Daddy wishes

I feel the need to clarify a few things about me and exHB, and how we had previously agreed to parent (before we were married and through the duration).

ExHB expressed his faith in the same way many observe Christmas and Easter but who never attend church. He drank, smoke, gambled and was adulterous - all of which seem extremely frowned upon in Islam, but observed Eid, doesn't eat pork, etc. Only once was covering myself ever even mentioned, and this was during a phase when he felt the need to pray and attend the mosque once or twice (which would usually happen after one of his affairs was uncovered), and he accepted my opinion about on the subject. Though it was not expressly spoken between us, I believed were were of the understanding that our children would not cover their head unless they wanted to when they were old enough to make the choice.

Something I really should have mentioned earlier is that exHB also has a son and daughter from a previous relationship (before our marriage) who are now 13 and visit weekly with my DD. My ex's DD wasn't given a scarf, and I sincerely doubt she would be asked to wear one (her mum would be very averse to it, though that's a story for her to tell).

When we divorced and went through court proceedings about DD, exHB and I agreed that we would encourage DD to observe each others' customs. He expressly asked that I wouldn't allow her to eat pork (which she doesn't) but nothing more. Of course I'd never allow DD to wear inappropriate clothing; neither that nor covering her hair was mentioned.

It's actually a surprise to me that DDs stepmum gave DD the scarf now, as the couple of times I've met her previously she wasn't wearing one herself and I'd assumed she was liberal in her faith as much of exHBs family are.

If I feel at all jealous, it's because my ex is far more financially able and can afford to take DD fun places/spoil her with gifts. It's genuinely reassuring that DD gets on well with her SM and make sure DD knows this so she doesn't feel her loyalties are torn. After all, I'll always be Ds mum and ex will always be her dad - I'm not being replaced, her parenting circle has just expanded, and there's no need for her to feel uncomfortable with that.

Yanbu. I'd be very upset to see my daughter wearing a sign of female oppression and would also worry what kind of influence her father and step mother might have in this regard going forward.

Sign of female oppression? or a sign of deep and meaningful religious belief which might add to her life in an uplifting and fullfilling way. (referring to its use by adult women btw)

it sounds like OP's ex has no respect for her whatsover. Whit???

People have such baggage over the issue of religions (and they are all a bit scary to non-believers imo (of which I am one)).

Still think OP should take a soft approach and the scarf wearing will hopefully be a fad over in a week or two.

I think YABU about it slightly. I understand you don't want to buy a black one for school and that seems fair enough. But I do think that if she wants to wear it at other times then she should be free to do so.

A head scarf is not a sign of female oppression. Free presbyterian woman mennonites, baptist of a certain age, Jewish Men keep their heads covered for religious observance to some extent.

I'd think it highly unlikely that the OPs ex will insist on her wearing a black scarf next time; as some posters have pointed out, the regular wearing of headscarves/hijab even in strict Muslim families is something that comes with puberty; a little girl who wears one will be doing the same thing as any other little girl dressing up as an adult (which is where the high heels analogy comes in)- it won't be something expected by the family, though they may find it cute and endearing.

As for those saying, the OP is the mother so should be allowed to decide- the only problem is that the OPs ex is the father, so should also have a say. Compromise, openness, discussion.

And not to forget that if the little girl is happy with her stepmum and wants to be like her, that is a positive in her life; things could be a lot worse.

OP you are not being unreasonable to be upset.
I think the best thing to do is not to make too much of a big deal of it, let her wear a black headscarf to school, but don't make a big deal of it

Personally I don't think primary schools should allow headscarfs as part of the uniform - then you wouldn't have to have this battle.

But since they do I don't think you can forbid it or make it difficult for your DD.

She is already going to have a hard enough time working out her own religious beliefs for herself, since Islam doesn't encourage this, and there is so much guilt in noncompliance. I think, as you have in other areas, trying to avoid this becoming a battleground between you and him is the right way.

YANBU. Your ex should have discussed it with you before giving her/encouraging her to wear the scarf.

I'm in a mixed faith marriage, but with my dcs brought up - by agreement with my dh - in my faith. All matters re religious practice are discussed specifically so we are both happy with them. That is reasonable and normal.

Why should your feelings not count here? Whether or not you made them clear earlier, wearing a headscarf is about Muslim cultural identity and the position of women and how you bring up yoir daughter re this is something that should be clarified before a change is made.

I wouldn't feel guilty about talking to your dh and asking him about this, stating that it makes you feel uncomfoetable - that you don't mind er wearing it when older if that is her choice but you don't like her wearing it now. Then speak to your dd, once the two of ypou have agreed how to deal with this - no point your bannng it if your dh is going to forbid her not to wear it etc.

Will the school let her if she isn't a practising muslim? Just wondering. I am sure they would ask if the turns up in one. What would she say?

Do the other woman in her dad family wear them or is this somehthing from step-mums side?

i dont think they would ask frontpaw they could run into all sorts of trouble, questioning strength of faith like that?

I was just wondering if a teacher would comment, or ask if there are other things they would have to consider for a muslim child at scool (food etc).

I am sure her friends mums would ask at pick up, wouldn't they? I know my noisey radar would pop on. I am very very nosey though.

Op, since your last post it doesn't sound as worrying. If your husband is fairly liberal and you think the SM is as well, then I doubt that they are trying to stealthily impose this on your daughter. Was probably just for dressing up and the rain - sounds a lot more harmless now. as for wearing it to school, will the school let her if she is just doing it to show off/dress up or do they only allow it for practising Muslims?

I would say no to the scarf - I don't think this is something the sm should be influencing, as this is not her dd, she is yours. It is something that you, personally, find very uncomfortable, so certainly when your child is with you, she should be observing your rules.

You agreed to raise the child to respect both ways of life, but this is encroaching on your cultural beliefs. Already, you don't let your child eat pork, when she is in your home - it seems to me that your ex is not being as accommodating to the issues you feel strongly about.

I think you should tell the ex that you feel strongly about this and remind him that you are accommodating the things that he feels strongly about, so fair's fair, he shouldn't push this issue.

I think it's odd. If the stepmum doesn't wear one herself, and your DD is only 7, ie; not at puberty, why all of a sudden? Is your ex feeling guilty about something again? (wildly surmising..)
I would play it down, not make a big deal out of it and just not mention it until she does and then "Oh, dear, what a shame, we haven't got a black one for school, what's your reading book again?"
Do any of her friends/role models wear them? Perhaps they've been discussing celebrations/traditions somewhere.
I think that ultimately, you are going to have to allow her to flirt with the religion a bit, just 7 is a bit young to start!

I would say no to wearing it to school, but OK to giving it occasional outings.

Op, to a 7 year old, a scarf does not symbolise oppression (which incidentally has never been the case, it is our stereotypes on a massive scale). Let her have fun with it. As you say, she wanted glasses, so its scarf today, tomorrow it will be something completely different.

My nieces love the pretty asian clothing (shalwar kameez) and like wearing them every so often, that does not mean that they are supporting oppression does it?

To everyone else who has an 'issue' with the scarf, please lets acknowledge that we cannot get over the fact that people do make a CHOICE to wear the scarf and these people do not fit the oppressed stereotype.

Is it really fair to say that a woman wearing a scarf is symbolising oppression and is covering because men cannot control themselves? If so, would it be fair to say that a woman wearing a short skirt is 'asking for it'? The answer to both is NO!