To think some Catholics don't understand their own faith

[zombiegames]

Okay I admit a thread about a couple of other threads.

I was brought up Catholic, but am not one now - but I do understand how the way you are brought up as a Catholic gets under your skin. But it does make me angry that other people here who say they are catholics, appear to have so little understanding of their own faith.

The pope is not just someone whose opinion you can dismiss if you are a catholic. He is christs representative on earth and he is infallible - that means he can't be wrong. This is an absolute key part of the one true faith. It is not a side belief that can be conveniently ignored.

So when the pope says for example that gay marriage or using condoms is wrong, that is a belief of the catholic faith and can't just be dismissed. If you say this is wrong, you are saying that the pope is not infallible and thus you are questioning an absolute key part of catholicism.

Why does this anger me? Because a lot of people who are not and have never been catholics don't really understand catholicism as can be seen on here when non catholic parents who send dcs to catholic schools froth on here about what their dcs are being taught. Posters who post about being catholic and non homophobic, are misrepresenting catholicism to those who don't understand it. If the pope says something, then that is part of the catholic faith and is what catholics should believe.

And sorry I probably ABU as I know this is a bit of a rant, even though it is true.

If religion is that important to a family they would ensure that this gets taught at home. School is to learn about history, english, maths, geography etc. Yes they can and should teach about religion and culture but no school should focus on a single faith.

If parents are that arsed, then it should up to them to provide their children with faith. I read Bible stories to my kids and my dd says her prayers every night as well as going to church. It's not that difficult and if you believe and want to pass that belief onto your kids, then you'd make the effort.

My catholic school didn't focus on a single faith. It followed te national curriculum for RE, meaning we focussef in depth on Islam and Judaism. Even the bible we used for RE class was the Protestant version (prescribed by the GCSE exam board).

Dione I know about the financial contribution from churches/mosques, etc to religious schools. But I still think we should have secular schools and come up with the money as taxpayers to cover this.

BTW I have heard much more unease expressed at evangelical christian and muslim state sponsored schools than catholic schools.

Northey- just like an ordinary state school. So what is the justification for Catholics having extra choices? Apart from the fact that the Church contributes towards the costs of running the school?

"Seeker, re Mary and Jim, are you saying that Jim wouldn't get an education because he lived close to a catholic school but wasn't catholic?"

He would get an education, but he is disadvantaged by the system. Mary has a choice of two schools relatively nearby, Jim only has a choice of one because he is discriminated against by the faith school.

"Seeker, re Mary and Jim, are you saying that Jim wouldn't get an education because he lived close to a catholic school but wasn't catholic?"

No. I am saying that he wouldn't get an duration t his nearest school. And other people who naive further away would get into that school. Which is clearly absurd. Unless catholic children need something different from school than non Catholic children.

Typo central. But you know what I mean!

The justification is that we see a benefit in having a catholic ethos in a school, so it can, for example, do side classes to prepare for sacraments, or celebrate church festivals in school, or learn about random quirks of church history at random moments. It adds colour and richness.

seeker, if, in your eyes, it is just like an ordinary state school, what possible objection can you have to its existence? If you do see a difference, then maybe that difference is the point to its separate existence.

"The justification is that we see a benefit in having a catholic ethos in a school, so it can, for example, do side classes to prepare for sacraments, or celebrate church festivals in school, or learn about random quirks of church history at random moments. It adds colour and richness."

But again, this presumably only 'benefits' the children at the school who actually are Catholics. What about the other children? And what about the children who live nearby but are prevented from attending their nearest state school by religious discrimination? The state will only provide so many school places by area - to have a substantial number of them 'block booked' by a certain religion is unfair.

"The justification is that we see a benefit in having a catholic ethos in a school, so it can, for example, do side classes to prepare for sacraments, or celebrate church festivals in school, or learn about random quirks of church history at random moments. It adds colour and richness."

And that's it?????? For that we have schools in the state system that have preferential admission for Catholics? Potentially leaving non Catholics who live on the doorstep travelling miles to school? So they can leqrn about random quirks of church history????

Eats many people feel that way, many more don't for a variety of reasons.

I think that we forget that for a long time religions were practically the only education providers for the majority of the population. Our current multicultural, technologically advanced, liberal nation is what it is because of the education delivered in faith schools.

In a catholic school, as Northey says, the kids are encouraged to attend mass, they celebrate catholic feast days, they make the sacrament with their classmates, they say catholic prayers etc. It's part of the catholic community.

But please don't think that all catholics see catholic schools as necessary. We are not all the same.

How does it disbenefit the non-Catholics, exactly? If their families are bringing them up as atheist or whatever, how will it matter to them if their school happens to be celebrating a festival?

Dione thats true, just as most healthcare that wasn't expensive used to be provided by religious institutions. But as you yourself have said, things change. And I do think religious state schools cause more problems than any benefits they bring.

It means that Catholics have a wider choice of schools. Pure and simple. And if, as in the old days, Catholics had to go to catholic school, there might be some justification. But I can't see any at all now.

My local press have reported on a child not getting a school place close to them as priority is given to siblings of those already in attendance. Abolishing faith schools will not necessarily do away with the Mary & Jim problem.

"I think that we forget that for a long time religions were practically the only education providers for the majority of the population. Our current multicultural, technologically advanced, liberal nation is what it is because of the education delivered in faith schools."

Yes, churches are a historical part of the UK's education system. There are lots of things in our history (some quite unsavoury) which have contributed to this country's wealth - doesn't mean we shouldn't review things and make changes where unfairness exists.

"My local press have reported on a child not getting a school place close to them as priority is given to siblings of those already in attendance. Abolishing faith schools will not necessarily do away with the Mary & Jim problem."

No, but it will get rid of one of the big causes of unfairness. The fact that there are other sources of unfairness doesn't negate this.

Eats, What do you consider the benefits to society of faith schools and what are the costs?

"How does it disbenefit the non-Catholics, exactly? If their families are bringing them up as atheist or whatever, how will it matter to them if their school happens to be celebrating a festival?"

Lots of reasons, eg:

• the child might feel alienated as it isn't 'their' religion
• the time might be better spent educating them about other subjects, or other religions, rather than having a huge emphasis on just Catholicism

I'm not talking about the way that most schools 'cover' religious festivals as part of the curriculum - going to a 'religious school' is quite a different thing, with a big emphasis on worship rather than learning about religion.

The non-catholic child has full access to the national curriculum. As long as that is covered, I don't think you can expect control how a school spends all the rest of its time. I think sports days were a total waste of time myself, and think the time could have been better spent with extra lessons, but we had two a year and that was that.

"The non-catholic child has full access to the national curriculum."

They don't have full access to th school, though, do they?

Maybe your problem is with the government, seeker, for not providing enough non faith state schools.