to plunge family into even more poverty for dd and a suitable education. LONG!

[dunnoreally]

I'm going around in circles so I thought I'd let you lot decide.

DD is 7, She isn't really properly happy at school, she has no close friends, doesn't fit in and has had a bit of teasing/mild bullying to contend with. She does not get party invites or playdate or tea invites - except from one girl who sort of 'leads' dd. Possibly dominates her a little. My dd is a bit odd, prickly, nerdy, frankly not standard in any way.

She has mild anxiety, some health issues that generated more anxiety around school and is a really cooperative child who is anxious to please.

She has seen a psychologist person at huge expense - maily because dh and I thought maybe we were deluded - but no we were right. She is high on the cognitive scales and is about 95 centile for ability.

She attends the 'best' school ln our area. As measured by stats, Ofstead and also by us - in that there is only one intake per year, very little teacher turn over, a fairly personal approach and so on. School agree she is bright, believe her to be well stretched and 'nothing unusual' in their words.

In her own words - the sums are soooooo easy. There was one sum that she remebers being hard in Sept, but then she 'clicked and I got it and I knew it'. I'm sure there are things she gets wrong and I'm sure her work isn't that easy for her, but I do not feel this is a good state of mind!

OK - what do I do? The only other school we could consider has friends in it and the feedback isn't that great, plus there is a wait list.

An indie school has offered us a huge bursary but it is 35-40 mins away. It's tiny and not actually remotely academic. It is non selective but has a lovely atmosphere. What I would hope is that it is small enough to be responsive. Their independent school report is glowing. Really very good. There are a large amount of children requiring extra support who get very well catered for, and in her way, dd is in a very similar situation to those children. The report states that able children are well served and stretched.

It goes through to 18 so dd could work her way up at her own rate rather than be tied to years and classes. The head has sadi he is happy for her to snake up and down as her education demands, as many classes double up anyway as the school is so small.

It's a cheap school and the fees would be tiny to many of you, but to us it would mean extra work for me ( I already have health issues) and absolute zero disposable income. Nada. Zilch. Nothing. We are poor and not likely to stop being poor for about 6 years. When things look a little better for us the bursary would probably be removed and we would remain the same - grindingly poor. As in about 15-20K for all of us to commute, live on, run the house etc (having bought the house and set up shop 8 years ago on combined salary of about 50K, the recession has been very hard on us). We can't down size as the next step down is a small flat and it would save us about £100 per month if we were lucky. One old car, no holidays as it is etc etc.

AIBU to simply put her in and just muddle through - probably accumulating some debt and probably accumulating a bit of stress and misery which we would need to work our socks off to hide from her. For her education and to try help her find a niche and a path to her best advantage?

Oh and by the way - we have a younger child. I think that one would have to go state like dd until....until....something else happened.

Oh dear. I am

Would it be worth starting a different thread on one of the education forums, asking for information about this school in particular? You say you don't know the ins and outs of how private schools work or how to evaluate them, but there are plenty of people on here who do, so even if there's nobody who knows this school in particular, there may be someone who can help you judge how suitable the school would be. I too would be worried about the small mixed classes and about the financial stability of the school - it might be great or it might be a complete disaster (or about to fold financially) - and it's really hard for you to judge either way.
Is there any chance of moving somewhere with better state options?

I moved my daughter to a girls' independent at 7 for very similar reasons. She now goes to a large academically selective school, where she is thriving. Being a big school, there are other kids at the same level as her in her best subjects, and she is no longer best in other subjects. She has a huge pool of girls to build friendships with, and she's made lovely friends that really get her quirkiness.

I don't think she be as happy in a small school as she would be less likely to find friends on her wavelength.

My advice is to look at all independent schools in the area. If this one has offered a scholarship so would others, quite possibly. Smaller is not necesssarily better. Large schools can still have small classes, and the kids in each class will be very close in ability.

Thank you one and all for your ideas and comments. I'm on my phone and typing is hard plus I'm at work so must be quick.

In a bid to help I've downloaded a chess app and imaging to try Learn basics.

A few people said a selective school would be better but there isn't one here. The nearest is in our local cities, they're about 1.5 hours away unfortunately. I'm pondering advertising for a teacher to tutor her with a view to perhaps winnings place at a good upper school. Maybe finances would be better then

We have a playdate tomorrow fingers crossed she enjoys it.

Will read and reply ASAP

Does the school she attends run a G&T programme? Most do. Can you ask? All of my children are exceptional academically and all are in the G&T in the state system. They never get bored, so they tell me, and are constantly challenged, working ahead and pushed. They are at different schools too, so it's not just the one school.

Why not look for a state school that runs a G&T?

Your DD sounds a lot like me at her age. I wouldn't worry too much about the academics - if she is bright, she can teach herself. My school was OK, but I was never stretched by the teachers. I am always puzzled by the stress on schools on MN - if you are truly clever, you should be able to figure it out yourself through books and the internet.

The important thing is to have access to books (weekly trip to the library is a great idea), conversation with adults, and getting a broadsheet newspaper delivered is an EXCELLENT idea. This will introduce her to all sorts of ideas, culture, books etc.

You sound like a lovely parent, but also rather down on yourself. I am sure you are more than able to help your DD on this journey.

As others have said, I would focus on the friendship/social side of things. I also struggled with this throughout my childhood. It did get better as I got older, and I am now a sociable, gregarious adult.

I also agree that a small indie only gives a small pool of people to be friends with. Better to go somewhere with a larger peer group.

Two issues here: one is she is very academically bright, and the other is she has problems fitting in socially.

If you could afford it, I'd say yes, go private, as even in a non-academic school they should be able to find ways of stretching her (you are paying, after all). But let's face it, it's hugely expensive and it will make you miserable. So I would tackle problem one by giving her stuff to stretch her outside school - getting her interesting books to read, maths puzzles and so on. I would tackle problem two by getting her to join some clubs, and keep trying till you find something that suits. Maybe see a psychologist who can help her with her social skills at school, because if she doesn't learn to fit in she will be very unhappy. (The psychologist will be expensive, but not as expensive as private school.)

It is hard. A lot of teachers seem to have an aversion to clever children, and are absolutely insistent that the child isn't anything special, they just have a pushy parent etc. (I know someone this happened to and her child was genuinely exceptional - how the school couldn't spot it is beyond me).

Hello - just in from work so will answer a few posts. Thank you all once again My heart goes out to those of you who have bad memories of childhood. Thank you very much for sharing them and I promise I will take them on board and try to learn from them.

The school have a G&T programme, which we had no idea about until we asked. SO they have put her on it and it seems to amount to suggesting the NAGT but we are waiting to see if anything else comes of it. SO that is is hand, so to speak. Also I said we wouldn't affoird the membership - we can. I thought it was monthly but it's yearly

She does 4 activities after school, all sports/dance based. I am going to hunt about and ask about and see if there are any more 'team' based things that might build on her social skills.

Perhaps my dcs will be best served by staying state for now - partivualry as there are no local private options that really address dd's immenent needs - and I should focus on a plan to getting her & her siblings moved for secondry. We would need to move to another part of the country for this, but it is 4 years away and that is do-able. I'll admit to wishing we had more local choice.

I feel much less alone - than you. Apart form the usual parents sense of being overwhelmed and wondering where the fricking guidebook to my daughter is, I also feel I can't talk about this to other parents. I don't want them to feel I am boasting or questioning their choice of school by saying we aren't happy with it. If that makes sense.

Perhaps I should look at other state options. That is a tricky one. Perhaps. I'll ponder that.

I would concentrate on the social side and do things out of school, find something that she is very interested in, throw herself into it and meet like minded children.

She is still young, you can introduce her to so much at home be it music or mathletics etc.

She is academically bright but socially struggling, she may even out a lot in the next few years. One of mine was funny socially but very bright, he is still smart but now easily sociable too. A small class of extremes isn't necessarily the best.

Our area isn't at all mc either that is actually irrelevant really the school should push. Can you join the governors or your dh? You will really know what is going on then!

another 'don't rule out home ed' post.

It is possible to work and home ed. I run my own business, which does involve teaching outside of the home although some of my hours include work at home. I suppose I have an advantage in that I always knew we would home ed, so built up a sustainable balance. I work when my daughter is with her dad (I'm single), or arrange swaps with friends, and have very supportive family. I've also used paid for childcare when I've had very busy periods.

Obviously it's not for everyone, which is why I wanted to phrase it as don't rule out, rather than you should home ed. You might look into it and decide it isn't for your family, but it is worth considering as a viable option despite working.

I always found school easy. It doesn't necessarily mean she's not being stretched though. She may well be learning new things continually but is bright enough to pick it up straight away, thus thinking it is "easy".

Are you sure some of her anxieties are not being picked up subconciously from you? Don't let her think she is too bright and not being catered for as this brings its own pressures.

Agree that you need to teach her the skill of how to learn herself. Completely second the library and internet ideas.

A small indie will be a smaller "pool of friends" as someone else has mentioned - especially if she is learning with older children. That will do her social skills no good at all.

Are there two classes in her year? A change of class might work and give her a fresh chance.

Stresses on the family will definitely increase with extra financial pressure. If she is an anxious child that won't be the answer.

My niece is the only girl in the football team. Let her be the first girl in cubs etc. If she doesn't like it she can leave.

Explore other options first. Moving her to the indie is not a good idea IMO.

I wouldn't do it. School fees go up disproportionately with inflation. If you will struggle now you will struggle a lot more in 3 years.

I would, as others have said, try to broaden her horizons socially - what about brownies, or doing things where she might meet kids from other schools.

Concentrate on doing interesting or stretching family activities - do you have much in the way of museums around you. Encourage as others have said broadsheet newspapers and use the library.

Don't rule out the fact that you don't know people in professions from her becoming a professional. Also be proud of who you are and what you are. When she gets a bit older you might need to start thinking work experience, but 7 is a bit young. When that time comes approach local (or not so local) businesses who might be able to help.

I am a self confessed geek. I was never very comfortable at school despite a variety of educational settings ranging from average state to v. expensive, v. academic boarding. It was only at university when I had the confidence to be me and not care anymore that listening to radio 4 was tragic, that I found my feet socially (and my fellow geeks).

I now have a large and varied social circle and was much amused at work to discover that I have the reputation of being the departmental social organiser. My classmates from school I suspect wouldn't believe it!

My only other caution is not to get too in thrall with her intelligence. Yes, she sounds bright but that don't allow that to excuse her from 'normal' family life eg. chores, being polite etc. You are still the parent and her sibling is important too.

Oh and going from being one of / the brightest at my state school to one of the much larger top at boarding school / university was hard.

Add in the first ever exam failure and life can become a bit miserable with age.

I was a bit of a nerdy child who ended up being sent to school out of my local community (and felt odd at my new school too). I would say don't underestimate the value to your dd in being part of your local community and at a school with neighbours (and I think you said family too?). You say you're worried about her not fitting in - the big risk of the private option from that point of view is that, although she possibly fits in better at school (but it's hard to see how, if it's not very academic and there's such a small pool of potential friends), she may start to feel irretrievably disconnected from her home life connections, and like the outsider who leaves there every day and has to come home and feel different. That's not a feeling that gives confidence to a child.

To some extent anyone who goes out of their local area to school gets this, especially if they go private, and I imagine it can be worth it (if still not essential) for exactly the right school, but I'm not sure it sounds like it will be in your dd's case. If this other school was very academic and a lot larger then perhaps it would be, but as it is it doesn't sound quite the right fit for her.

Another point about size - a larger school means more money for teachers, labs and equipment. Of course this school will want to sell you the idea of very individually tailored work for your dd but that doesn't mean they'll have the range of teaching expertise or equipment to be able to follow whatever her educational interests are if they turn out to be expensive or unusual.

If she's extremely bright and academic then she's likely to feel just as different from most of the crowd at her new school - she's quite likely to feel different wherever she is unless or until she gets to a very academically selective school (or a large school with statistically more very bright kids), or to university. But actually if you don't fit with everyone academically you can still get confidence and security from feeling that at least you belong where you are in other ways, such as being part of the local community that goes to a school. It's quite an intangible thing and hard to quantify and may not seem essential, but please do take it into account.

In your position I'd spend the money on other kinds of tuition that you can tailor very specifically to your child - music, website subscriptions, trips to interesting places - and I think do what you say you're going to do and work hard at the social side. Then I'd rethink coming up to secondary. But I wouldn't make the jump to private at this stage - not from what you say about this particular school and your finances.

I kept noticing that you seem worried that your daughter will be held back by your area, and general background. I can empathise with that- I worry about that kind of thing, too.

But, anyway, when I was around your daughter's age, I received the best present I may have ever received in my life- a set of Oxford Children's Encyclopedias. New, they're more than the price of a new bicycle, I admit. But they're certainly cheaper than the school would be.

I was encouraged to read them for entertainment, and so I did. Without even noticing, I learnt about all kinds of things, from Royal Societies to Burkina Faso.

Take a very deep breath

I'm already saving for our set in a few years.

lurkerspeaks speaks a tremendous amount of sense!

The social side of life improves markedly with finding like minded people. That might happen at Guides or choir, but mostly it comes with getting older.

School got markedly better in Y9/Y10 as choosing and doing O'levels became more important than petty gossip. A group of us formed who were determined to do well.

We stuck together, helped each other and kept the teachers on their toes. It was a very ordinary comp. It could get people into Oxbridge etc., but you had to pass your determination on to the teachers. Then they were delighted to help.

Likewise university was easy to make friends at, because it was just such a huge pool of people.

School gate Mums I have nothing in common with and I find really hard

Should have added,

DD1 doesn't make friends easily either and only now, also in Y9 is starting to find friends to work with.

When you were working out the finances dunno did you allow for 'extras' or just the quoted fees? My friend went to an independent school and she reckons you should factor in about the same amount again for books/uniform/music lessons etc. Some of the things are not compulsory in theory but you're looked down on if you don't do them.

Fwiw I was gifted as a child and went through state. You couldn't even take the 11+ then if you were out of county as I was. I did alright anyway (am a lawyer).

I might be able to afford fees for dc1 if I really stretched us, but there's no way I could do dc2 as well so I won't consider it. My sister and I were treated differently as children by my mother and it just fostered resentment and bitterness.

I wouldn't do it either. We have children in private education and the fees go up by more than inflation most years. I think the amount of financial stress you will put yourself under could we undo any benefit your DD may get. I would use some of the money you would spend on fees on enrichment activities - a trip to the nearest orchestra for example.

If you are really concerned about secondaries then may be consider one of the State boarding schools (yes - such things exist) where you only pay the boarding fees but no tuition costs c£8-10K pa. Schools like Hockrill and Cranbrook have a very good reputation
www.sbsa.org.uk/find_school.php

Thank you for the ongoing sense and insights.

The school has very few extras but that is all pretty academic really as the basics seem out of our reach. I do think it would be the best for dd, I am pretty sure of it. However I think, on reflection, I need to admit we just can't do it. Regardless of how important I think it is. That's a bitter pill and not something I can feel good about. But I have to put up with it.

I can't bear to contemplate not sending her for secondry so I will start thinking about how that could be done. Be that moving to am area with better state schools or better fee paying schools. There must be a way. OUr local schools only charge up to £10k even in senior, so I think I will get a shock if we look into city based schools!

I have looked in to some more interesting type summer school stuff and whilst there is nothing remotely local there is plenty 'out there'. It just involves a week away for dd and a parent. There seems to be loads of stuff schools can access, its a bit frustrating. Our school seems more into discos and people coming and putting on pantos. No Childrens University I'm afraid - but thank you for the link, it looks like a great idea.

Which broadsheet do you all recommend? I have no clue really.

Work experience hadn't occured to me - I realise that is for years away but that is a nice thought. She might get to see things and I can help her organise things in different places with different professions.

Thank you to those who have shared their life experiences.

She has flat refused to do Brownies She hears the girls talking about their fairy paintings and she said it wasn't her thing. Got to laught with her really, she is a quirky madam.

In response to those who warn against me putting my anxieties on her - well naturally I try to shield her from them. SHe is more likely to pick up on my anxieties regarding being late for school, finding a parkign place and not being able to get the sand pit out due to the weather - as that is what I have mostly been moaning about. I try to keep things easy going around her, as it is like having another adult around some of the time. She is aware of thing like the car tax beiong due and the financial implications of that - stuff like that.

No pulling wool over her eyes for a minute!

I think you're mde the right decision- for all the reasons people hve posted- no point going over them again.

One thing- might I gently suggest that you need to be careful abbot letting her say a flat no to things like Brownies without trying? She is only 7, you need to be , in the nicest possible way, "in charge" still! And you do say that it"s her social skills she needs to work on a bit.

I think sometimes people with very bright children are a little bit in awe of them, and forget that they are still children like any other children who need guiding- sand sometimes telling!

Totally agree seeker. Plus, there rae few things more off putting to people ( including Oxbridge interviewers ) than precocious bright kids who think they're above ordinarychildren's fun activities.

I haven't read all of the comments mainly just your original posting. I as many know believe in independent ed. (morning seeker) and have extensive experience of all types from the best in the UK to little schools like you describe. The term caveat emptor applies as much to indie schools as to horses and 2nd hand cars.
Firstly and most importantly
"Their independent school report is glowing." these things are not worth the paper they're written on.
Secondly you describe your DD as a bit of a loner I an unconvinced that this situation will necessary improve in this school both my DS's have been described as eccentric/lone wolf/weird and the older one has a similar IQ to your DD and was at this age awkward socially and bullied in little village school the situation was little better when he moved to a small prep very similar to that you are describing.
IME experience small prep = small ethos children like you daughter do not need this.

Thirdly I'm not bothered so much about non selective plenty of preps are non selective and can meet the needs of the able children and in these kind of schools the parents often want their children pushed and nearly all believe at this age Henry is a potential rocket scientist.
Finally you say you are going to struggle to afford this. We've been there and got the T shirt many years ago we were in an identical situation. We realised that we couldn't continue literally living a hand to mouth existence it was putting an incredible strain on every aspect of our lives and we decided that we wanted one of our children in particular to go to an independent senior school so my husband chucked in his business with its erratic finances and he went out and got a good job. But that was 2007 the world is a different place now. Its not just the fees its the unexpected dentists, new tyres, sick pets it is really stressful.
Both my DS's are now older and both widely accepted in their respective schools. DS1 who has a similar profile to you daughter eventually went to a larger prep where there were more like him and he stood out less and is now very happy in a good comp.

No real advice to add - there is a tonne of good advice on here already and it sounds like you are coming to sensible conclusions.

I do however disagree with those frowning on non-academic independent schools - I went to one and it was wonderful; I was an academic child and it did stretch me whilst also emphasising art, music and sport. It called itself non-academic simply because it didn't believe in hothousing, it's aim was to produce well-rounded people and it was a very nurturing, encouraging place. I loved it.

But that's by-the-by; what I actually came on to say is just to reassure you a bit; your dd sounds just like my dh was at that age. He was taken out of the regular education system and sent to a school that let children work at their own tempo (not private, this was in mainland Europe in a country where paying for education is unheard of). It didn't really solve his social issues and he suffered mild bullying on and off throughout his primary years. It all got much better at secondary level, when he returned to the regular education system albeit skipping a year, in a school large enough for him to find a close circle of equally nerdy and academic friends. He went on to excel at university and have a very successful and well rewarded career in IT. He is also very sociable now and has loads of friends as well as a fabulous wife and family . I think the lesson is, as others have said, keep on doing your best to encourage your dd's interests and introducing her to as wide a range of people and experiences as you can, and try not to tie yourself in knots worrying - easier said than done, I know. Your love and support matters more than anything.