to plunge family into even more poverty for dd and a suitable education. LONG!

[dunnoreally]

I'm going around in circles so I thought I'd let you lot decide.

DD is 7, She isn't really properly happy at school, she has no close friends, doesn't fit in and has had a bit of teasing/mild bullying to contend with. She does not get party invites or playdate or tea invites - except from one girl who sort of 'leads' dd. Possibly dominates her a little. My dd is a bit odd, prickly, nerdy, frankly not standard in any way.

She has mild anxiety, some health issues that generated more anxiety around school and is a really cooperative child who is anxious to please.

She has seen a psychologist person at huge expense - maily because dh and I thought maybe we were deluded - but no we were right. She is high on the cognitive scales and is about 95 centile for ability.

She attends the 'best' school ln our area. As measured by stats, Ofstead and also by us - in that there is only one intake per year, very little teacher turn over, a fairly personal approach and so on. School agree she is bright, believe her to be well stretched and 'nothing unusual' in their words.

In her own words - the sums are soooooo easy. There was one sum that she remebers being hard in Sept, but then she 'clicked and I got it and I knew it'. I'm sure there are things she gets wrong and I'm sure her work isn't that easy for her, but I do not feel this is a good state of mind!

OK - what do I do? The only other school we could consider has friends in it and the feedback isn't that great, plus there is a wait list.

An indie school has offered us a huge bursary but it is 35-40 mins away. It's tiny and not actually remotely academic. It is non selective but has a lovely atmosphere. What I would hope is that it is small enough to be responsive. Their independent school report is glowing. Really very good. There are a large amount of children requiring extra support who get very well catered for, and in her way, dd is in a very similar situation to those children. The report states that able children are well served and stretched.

It goes through to 18 so dd could work her way up at her own rate rather than be tied to years and classes. The head has sadi he is happy for her to snake up and down as her education demands, as many classes double up anyway as the school is so small.

It's a cheap school and the fees would be tiny to many of you, but to us it would mean extra work for me ( I already have health issues) and absolute zero disposable income. Nada. Zilch. Nothing. We are poor and not likely to stop being poor for about 6 years. When things look a little better for us the bursary would probably be removed and we would remain the same - grindingly poor. As in about 15-20K for all of us to commute, live on, run the house etc (having bought the house and set up shop 8 years ago on combined salary of about 50K, the recession has been very hard on us). We can't down size as the next step down is a small flat and it would save us about £100 per month if we were lucky. One old car, no holidays as it is etc etc.

AIBU to simply put her in and just muddle through - probably accumulating some debt and probably accumulating a bit of stress and misery which we would need to work our socks off to hide from her. For her education and to try help her find a niche and a path to her best advantage?

Oh and by the way - we have a younger child. I think that one would have to go state like dd until....until....something else happened.

Oh dear. I am

I would pay for an outstanding private school, but not your typical one down the road who only have average attainment (given they have tiny classes, you would expect much better) and describe themselves as 'non-academic'.

Your daughter sounds like my daughter in many ways, a bit quirky, loves geeky things. But being in a state primary (also with few other professionals as parents) has benefitted her, mainly socially and they have amazing pastoral care. She is also stretched, very few children are really so clever they can't be extended by a good teacher, after all, if they are asked to do creative writing, they can be twice as creative as the others, if that's their thing. Maths you can do extra at home online as others have suggested. I have also encouraged her to join group activities such as choir rather than focusing on individual achievement ones where that tendency to get overanxious about succeeding can take hold.

If you had enough money and it wouldn't massively jeopardise your living standards, I would say go for it for a brilliant school. But being poor, really poor, to send her to an ok private school, I'd try to improve the current situation especially given the commute.

Wow that website rocks oikopolis. Thank you!

Is home ed out of the question?

I think if you move her to a school that lets her move up through classes, she will have a much harder time socially than she does now. How easily will she make or keep friends if she's in a group that fits her academically but not in terms of maturity- if her classmates are 15 and given near-adult levels of independence and she's only 12 and not allowed to do any of the same things? And if she does move ahead, what happens when the year group she's with reaches GCSEs and A levels? You're just storing up loads of problems for the future.

I think you should talk to school about how you can support them to bring her reading and writing skills up to the same level as everything else. Without those, she won't achieve academically in the way you feel she should. And as you're doing that, work with her on the social stuff.

Tbh, you sound sad and disappointed about the area you live in and the people you know. Don't let that cloud your decision; sending her to the new school won't necessarily help, particularly given the distance and how much harder that will make it for her friendships to succeed. It's an enormous gamble to take.

I just don't know where I would start or what I'd hope to achieve or how I'd manage the 34 hours I work!

That feels more scary than all the private schools in the world!

No. No No please dont!

If I were you, think ahead - the impact of family stress at home if you were to fork out huge costs for the private school - would impact her more negatively

remember - she will learn from MANY different sources in this life- NOT JUST A SCHOOL - there is too much pressure on kids to perform - and I think all pressure needs to come off your daughter academically for just a little while

1. she needs boosted up regarding the whole friendships/making friends thing first of all - once her self esteem increases in this area, it will have a knock opositive effect on the rest of her life - her school marks or any other school issue, as she will have found the inner confidence to get through it

1. going bankrupt as a family will NOT help your daughter - trust me - she will grow up with an ENORMOUS burden oher shoulders, that money involved in her schooling has put stress into your family life etc

1. I would:

up the trips to the library with her, one on one, at weekends up the one on one chats about how wonderful she is up the letting her have time to herself (i think she sounds like me - and i always needed so much time to myself, just to recharge from daily life - my mother never understood this amd was always barraging me, rather than just letting me be...) up the school support - get teacher to monitor behaviour of others towards her up the outside activity - maybe Girl Guides, tennis, art, music?

Good luck a you sound like a super mum x

Where do you live?

Yes I agree Marvellous. I would only ever consider her moving ahead in year groups in the type of private school we looked at - where they can study there to 18 and shift up and down to suit. There are only about 250 pupils across 4-18 so they are able to be fluid and everyone seems to know everyone anyway. So actual age might get lost in translation. I wouldn't consider her moving ahead in state and neither would the school.

I also loved the way the senior students are really expected to take an active role in looking after younger learners. They serve meals, mentor boarders, help with homework and clubs. It all seemed so rounded.

I am uncomfortable where I live and I think this situation is really putting a microscope on it. On the plus side we can live in a house that cost us 130k which in the place last lived would cost 200-300k and never ever be achieved. But there is a reason things here are cheap, it's because there is no industry, no job security, no 20-40 year olds in very much work and huge amounts of under 20's and over 60's. There is no university, no students and the money they bring, only a magistrate court etc etc. It is isolated and badly served by roads etc.

It is a brill place to be 0-5 for sure
Thanks for all your insights, some really interesting slants here.

belle that's really good advice...I have been taking it very slowly with my DD...it's about confidence in my opinion and some kids don't ccome with that pre-programmed no matter HOW much we try to instill it.

I have I think let my DD "get away with" not mixing enough....she always felt to shy to go to gymnastics though she iked it...I wish I had kept that up...now I have found a sweing group for her and will be starting after half term....little things like that...and also things which can help her in school. Her rather briliant new teacher has begun a programme of traditional games...she's teaching the dc all these old fashioned circle game and they love it...so playing together has become part of the lesson. Could you suggest this OP?

I can't thank my DDs teacher enough for coming up with this idea...she's very thoughtful and caring and the DC of course are all enjoying it.

sorry for bad spellling! My laptop keys are rubbish!

FWIW, I agree with oikopolis.

If she's into architecture and you have the possibility of going into London, try this out www.lfa2012.org/
It looks like fun too. :)

Honestly? You are uncomfortable where you live and it sounds to me very much as if you are projecting that onto your dd. You are prepared to put the family on a financial knife edge to send her to a non-academic school simply because it's not where she is now. But that's your issue, not hers. There's masses you can do to support and extend her learning at home, as well as supporting her social skills and development. But you don't want to, because you don't know all the answers and don't like the people she goes to school with.

Sorry. I know that sounds harsh. But you need to live the life you have, rather than thinking 'if only...'

Well, dd does 4 after school activities. I don't think we can fit any more in! I don't want to put her under any more pressure to have a good time, if that makes sense.

I have had countless playdates over. It always ends the same. I end up playing dolls or craft with the guest and dd wanders off into her own little world.

Of course she hears how wonderful she is and how much we love her and how she should lie about and read a comic or do some sums or whatever she facies. She gets zero nagging, if she practises her hobbies if she doesn't - fine. So long as she achieves what is requested of her by her teachers and so long as she enjoys her hobbies. I will never imply that she is expected to do anything she isn't motivated to do. Happily I do feel she can be trusted here - she is so damn sensible she has been known to remind me she needs to stop playing with me and practice something or other!

She will tell me herself that she has never had to actually work or try hard at school, so it will be interesting when she does. I asked her today atually, what she thought it would be like to have some class work that was really tricky and didn't make much sense. She looked really excited and said she thought she'd jsut have to think and work hard like the others do and that she would love that.

She is a bloody saint when it comes to turn taking and negotiating and problem solving. She lets her classmates 'off' changing rules in chess or monopoly because she tells me they really wanted to win and just aren't ready to understand that rules are there for a reason. She is keen that they enjoy the game so she lets them make up rules to suit them.

What can you do with her? It's her nature to be calm and considered and logical and old.

Also, if she liked the Royal Society lecture check their website royalsociety.org/royalsociety.tv/

Or do you mean these: www.rigb.org/contentControl?id=00000001882&action=displayContent

WilsonFrickett Well, I think you may have a point. I don't like the economics of my area, no. But worse things happen at sea and I have a cracking job and massive family support here. But I do like the people she goes to school with, most of them are my social friends in fact. Some of them are relatives. They are all settled families with good work ethics and are essentially good role models.

But I woul dlike to see her happy and she doesn't seem it and I'm worried she will feel out of place for a very long time to come. I thought private school might help as it might differentiate her education more and show her more paths in life.

I can do that, but it would be nice to have some help and back up from school. Which is surely a massive part of childhood?

Yes I think those are the lectures she was talking about. I've never heard of them and couldn't figure out what she meant. Thank you!

Shame I'm working tomorrow there is so much to look through. Will have a good search on Sunday and line up some interesting things for her to look at.

Have you considered home schooling?

Then she could have a truly individualised education, which sounds like what she needs.

just let her be herself then!!

and forget about where you live - it is what it is

dont let her hear you complain about the school or area if you can help it - she will pick up on all of it

also:

1. she will probably be a high flier in life regardless of where she has been educated because you have given her so much of your time. Trust me. I wish mine had invested so much concern in what I was doing at school...my choices would have been clearer somewhat and I would have felt supported

yes rambling sorry -

1. if she is somewhat 'old' as you say, then there is nothing to worry about - but you'll only find this out in a few years, hard to see at this time iyswim. It's to her own benefit that she can behave with such an old soul attitude - this is to her credit - and you neednt worry about her.

oh also - i found last week on my sons reading book oxford reading tree website - you can read books for free and choose higher levels or ages - so maybe just read the higher level books online with her at home? or library again

but really - take e pressure off yourself too - sounds like you are doing a great job with her and she is almost telling YOU that she an manage (but in her own quirky way) I remember being EXACTLY like this (v independent too)

sorry long post

Shagmundfreud I've heard of it of course and I I totally see why people do, but Honestly I probably haven't properly considered it as an option - I can't imagine I'd be very good at it! I'm not organised and I have zero discipline. God I can't loose a stone never mind motivate and challenge a 7 year old!
Surely you have to not have a paid job outside the home? Or at least not work very much? I'm the main wage earner so that can't happen.

It scares the pants off me - what a responsibility! Maybe I should shuffle in to the home ed board. I know a lady at work did it so maybe I could ask her where on earth she started.

I love long posts Belleflowers

Oh God well if thought put into you by your parents makes you feel a happy rounded adult - dd should be up their with Buddah!!
Karma may bite my arse and she may drop out. I don't care as long as her anxious ticks go and she learns to laugh like I hear other children laughing.

It is so odd that she is such a "sensible bundle of fragile anxiety" [ Lord help us - those are the ed psychs words]. Her sibling is a total loon and they are not so much chalk and cheese as black and white. It's amazing just how different they are.

By 3 dd had figured out multiplication. My other one talks about her smelly bum a lot. Just fab

I must go to bed. I have the mother of all days at work tomorrow.
I do feel better - thank you everyone. Such considered answers and some very interesting points of view. Thank you for your time.

If I were you, I'd do everything in my power to move house and therefore school. I wouldn't send her to a private school if it means the whole family is struggling for years. It would be awful to have to pull her out if it came down to that.

I don't think that school would be able to meet her needs. A friend of mine works somewhere suitable and has said how little money the school has for any resources. Classes are doubled up; she could be with younger and less able children just as easily as with brighter and older children. Plus, if you earn more, you'll lose the bursary; what kind of incentive is that?

Make a move as a family to an area where the schools are better. It would be a fresh start for all of you.

TBH, I suspect your DD will lead her own education a lot if she is allowed.

I'd visit the library frequently and let her bring any books she likes.

You can also buy newspapers (maybe cheaper than the other school) or even let her read them online (preferably broadsheets, by the way).
My father is an avid newspaper reader and I've acquired a broad vision of the world through that.

Look for documentaries on TV, or even YouTube videos. You can get lots of interesting things as well the common funny cat playing piano clips. wink

And you could buy her a chess set. No need for a chess club.
My DS (also 7, but no genius) has enjoyed learning a bit and playing with us (I only barely know the rules, BTW). You may be able to find online clubs where players have distance games.

Essentially, just let her be like herself, as others said, and gain confidence about it.
She's already showing to be socially intelligent by not alienating her mates on the games.

Belleflowers is right, bankrupting yourself for private schooling isn't the answer.

Finding what makes your daughter tick and having the money to let her pursue it is!

DD1 is dyslexic, bright and a bit quirky, she finds making friends hard and getting bullied easy.

However, she also discovered she can sing better than anyone else in her peer group and since she doesn't care what people think, is quite happy to perform.

The confidence being genuinely good at something has given her is immeasurable. Also joining the school and village choirs allows her just the sort of controlled social contact she needs.

Seven is very young, DD1 didn't start singing till she was 8-9. Her lovely nerdy male DF didn't find his feet until he was about 9 or 10.

By all means look round all your local state schools small and large. I know a very bright girl who moved to a much larger school where she wasn't the only seriously G&T and was way happier to stand out less. Put your DDs name on the waiting list for any schools hat feel right, but don't jump on the private band wagon.

Keep the money for to allow her to pursue her interests and for a a tutor to get her into Grammar school.

If your the main wage earner could you and your dh share homeschooling?

You would probably only need to give her a couple of hours guidance per day - there are no rules about which days and what times those are?

Would any of your family be able to have her during the day - sounds like she would love doing stuff with other adults?