to plunge family into even more poverty for dd and a suitable education. LONG!

[dunnoreally]

I'm going around in circles so I thought I'd let you lot decide.

DD is 7, She isn't really properly happy at school, she has no close friends, doesn't fit in and has had a bit of teasing/mild bullying to contend with. She does not get party invites or playdate or tea invites - except from one girl who sort of 'leads' dd. Possibly dominates her a little. My dd is a bit odd, prickly, nerdy, frankly not standard in any way.

She has mild anxiety, some health issues that generated more anxiety around school and is a really cooperative child who is anxious to please.

She has seen a psychologist person at huge expense - maily because dh and I thought maybe we were deluded - but no we were right. She is high on the cognitive scales and is about 95 centile for ability.

She attends the 'best' school ln our area. As measured by stats, Ofstead and also by us - in that there is only one intake per year, very little teacher turn over, a fairly personal approach and so on. School agree she is bright, believe her to be well stretched and 'nothing unusual' in their words.

In her own words - the sums are soooooo easy. There was one sum that she remebers being hard in Sept, but then she 'clicked and I got it and I knew it'. I'm sure there are things she gets wrong and I'm sure her work isn't that easy for her, but I do not feel this is a good state of mind!

OK - what do I do? The only other school we could consider has friends in it and the feedback isn't that great, plus there is a wait list.

An indie school has offered us a huge bursary but it is 35-40 mins away. It's tiny and not actually remotely academic. It is non selective but has a lovely atmosphere. What I would hope is that it is small enough to be responsive. Their independent school report is glowing. Really very good. There are a large amount of children requiring extra support who get very well catered for, and in her way, dd is in a very similar situation to those children. The report states that able children are well served and stretched.

It goes through to 18 so dd could work her way up at her own rate rather than be tied to years and classes. The head has sadi he is happy for her to snake up and down as her education demands, as many classes double up anyway as the school is so small.

It's a cheap school and the fees would be tiny to many of you, but to us it would mean extra work for me ( I already have health issues) and absolute zero disposable income. Nada. Zilch. Nothing. We are poor and not likely to stop being poor for about 6 years. When things look a little better for us the bursary would probably be removed and we would remain the same - grindingly poor. As in about 15-20K for all of us to commute, live on, run the house etc (having bought the house and set up shop 8 years ago on combined salary of about 50K, the recession has been very hard on us). We can't down size as the next step down is a small flat and it would save us about £100 per month if we were lucky. One old car, no holidays as it is etc etc.

AIBU to simply put her in and just muddle through - probably accumulating some debt and probably accumulating a bit of stress and misery which we would need to work our socks off to hide from her. For her education and to try help her find a niche and a path to her best advantage?

Oh and by the way - we have a younger child. I think that one would have to go state like dd until....until....something else happened.

Oh dear. I am

I would do it OP.

A small, friendly school that offers lots of individual attention and support is just the thing for a child who is less confident socially. No state school will offer such small class sizes as independent schools.

And the independent school may not be described as academic, but compare to a state school and I wonder? And while it may not be at your DD's age but later on...? Also, if a child is happy and confident and gets one-on-one attention and support they are much more likely to do well academically.

With a large bursary and she can stay there until she's 18 - I would definitely do it.

There is a prejudice against independent schools in MN.

Marianne, children thrive on being with children who are at the same level as them. I don't think that's going to happen in that school.

"Non-academic". They're defining themselves as non-academic? Wouldn't touch it with a bargepole, then.

Hard to put it into words; I'll have a think.

If her current school isn't differentiating work for her, a non-academic school is not going to do better, surely?

And you think you should drive yourselves into poverty for that?

Look, think about extra-curriculars. Languages, music. Trips to museums. The things people look back on with happiness. The things that education is made of.

She's only seven. A school like that seems like a recipe for minimal GCSE choices and minimum A-level choices.

A very clever child who finds social interaction difficult going to a 'non academic school'???? She would find it HELL.

I also went to a non academic school, and stood out as even more of a geeky weirdo than I would have done in a high academic setting. Yes, it's nice that the seniors help the little ones- but if your daughter already feels lessons don't stretch her- she will be bored sh*tless and still not fitting in.

Controversial to say this, bit maybe at some point in the future she may do well at a boarding school...

She will be exactly the same child at a new school. If she's not coping at he moment you need to give her the tools to do that, but don't imagine a new environment will make her "different". You say she's bright? Why on earth are you contemplating a non academic school?

I don't think a non academic school would be the answer by the sounds of it. Have you tried other independents?

Dunno, I have only read your posts on the first couple of pages, and I dis see there were others from you. I thought it was coming through loud and clear enough just from those that your gut instinct is telling you she needs to go to the other school.

Send her. If I read you right and you do have an instinct that you want to move her then listen to that.

If it doesn't work out, you can always move her back to state. You might never get the offer of a bursary again. You might, as it sounds like you have a very clever little girl, but you just don't know. You are taking as much of a chance by leaving her where she is.

Honestly? I think you need to sk yourself what she will get out of the independent school, if it's tiny- so a very small pool of potential friends- and non academic- she still be a big fish in a tiny pool academically. I would be worried about a small cheap independent school in the current economic climate.

"The psychologist said she would easily pass any 11+ entrance exam pretty shortly" I would beincredibly wary of this- my ds is in that percentile too and completely tanked his 11+- it's IMHO a bit naughty of the EP to make such categoric statements.

Could you be more proactive in her current school? See if you can get a chess club startedfor example? Please don't leave yourself with no disposable income at all- what about holidays and fun stuff? What about your other child? What about you? What if th car blows up or the roof falls in? A life ot precarious on the edginess is no use for anyone. Think about ways to make what you've got better.

I wouldn't waste my money on a non-academic school. Nor would I commit to a 40 minute journey each way if I had an old car and would struggle to afford the petrol or to replace the car if you needed.

I also don't think that not being the child of lawyers, doctors will have any bearing on what she decides to do with her life. I was a high achiever at school. I would have walked any private school scholarship had my parents even known such things existed (they both came from poor backgrounds and had to leave school at 14 to earn money for their families). I am a qualified lawyer and had to do all the research myself to work out how I would achieve that. I started planning when I was 8.

If you are keen on the private route you would be better off investigating what bursaries would be available at academic schools near you.

What you do for one child you MUST do for the other is all I can say.

I recognise that not all people are "academic", shouldn't a school be a place where academia is a valid lifestyle choice?!

If the school wants to take parents' money for that long children from primary to 18, then it should be a sight more multi-faceted. The "non-academic" eight year-old may be very academic by fifteen, and they should want to cater for all their pupils!

Hmm. I think you need to be very cautious tbh. The teachers at her school have acknowledged that she is bright, but have said that it isn't to the extent that they are not used to dealing with. This ties in with what the educational psychologist has told you - top 5% means 1 or 2 kids in every class of 30 kids. In schools with an above average intake, there will obviously be more kids at this sort of level. So the teachers should be well equipped to deal with this kind of thing.

She might get more attention at an indie school, but if it isn't that academic, they may not actually be able to cater for her any better that they do at her current school. And the social mixing problems will not necessarily go away. Is it really worth the risk.

My dd is roughly the same age (coming up to 7) and is very bright, but she does fine at her state school. Acceleration was suggested but we ruled it out - she'd have needed to move up several year groups to find her peers academically, and that would have been a social disaster, whereas anything less would have been pointless. Could you not invest any spare money in a range of extra-curricular activities to provide additional stimulation? DD is learning mandarin, for example, and loves it! If you spend all your cash on a private school, you'll have nothing left for this kind of thing, and if dc2 turns out to be bright as well, you will find yourself in a very tricky position.

You say that you can't afford to join NAGC, but it's a lot cheaper than a private education. We have membership through the school. Personally, I don't find it that useful, but I know others do.

It sounds like the priority should be to work on your dd's social skills. Don't be fooled into thinking that all bright children inevitably struggle to get on with their peers - they don't. Treat this as a separate issue, and ask the school what they are going to do to help your dd fit in and be happy in school. That is probably the biggest thing you can do for her right now, and it's more important than the academic stuff in the long term - I know this from first-hand experience.:(

Finally, don't worry about your own background and how well placed you are to help her. As someone else has said, your interest and eagerness to support will go a very long way.

I empathize because I'm in a similar situation with my DD (aged 7). When my DD first started school, she excelled wonderfully in a state school supportive to her needs. Unfortunately we had to move across town (due to unavoidable personal circumstances). For a while I commuted with her (and my much older DS) every day, a 40-60 minute drive through "close-to-rush-hour" traffic which wrecked my old car, cost a small fortune in petrol and exhausted us all.

Eventually I moved the kids to schools more local to us (due to both the commute and problematic circumstances). My DS thrived as his secondary is good, but my daughter has become incredibly frustrated at her new school and still wants to go back to her previous one.

The area we live in now is severely deprived and the school equally so. Her old state school taught languages, music, physical activity every day. Her new school offers PE only once per week, no languages, no music. Unfortunately I can't get her into any other local state school due to location restrictions enforced by our council, and as we're not religious she's unable to attend the (much better) local faith school.

During her first year, her teacher was not so supportive and stopped just short of calling me a pushy-proud mom when I suggested DD was feeling frustrated at her lack of stimulation. My daughter visibly dumbed herself down at first to try and fit in with the other kids and was incredibly melancholy, so I tried my damndest to make it up at home by providing her with extra homework and out of school activities (homeschooling after school I suppose!).

Lucckily her Y2 teacher is much more supportive and offers extra work, maths with older classes and the like so things are much better now (but far from ideal).

I have looked into the possibility of private schooling, but in my area neither of the only two prvate schools offer bursaries for primary school age children. There is the possibility of a scholarship/bursary when she reaches 11 based on the results of a test so we're working towards this.

Financially I'm at rock bottom (self employed with DS15, DD7 and DS7 months) but hoping to save and earn more over the next four years to make private academic schooling a possibility if she's eligible for a bursary I can afford to top up (plus affors uniforms, school trips, etc).

In the meantime, I try my best to keep up with her needs with extra-curricular activities, Internet (for her 7th birthday I saved for her own 2nd-hand laptop) and as much stimulation as possible. Luckily my DD doesn't seem to have problems being sociable, but does prefer the company of older children and adults whenever possible.

Dunnoreally, in your position I would still be in an absolute dilemma as to what to do NOW. I completely understand why it would be beneficial for your DD to attend private now as in all likelihood she'd feel far more comfortable in the cosy adaptive environment, but as the school is not "academic" how would this fare for her long term?

Let's say she (or you) would like to have a more academic route 11+ to excel at her grades for GCSE. Would your current option support those needs and perhaps help her fly through tests to see if a scholarship at an academic private school were possible then?

Alternatively, could you set up a plan from now til 11+ to help hertowards such a scholarship, meanwhile saving towards expenses and having more finances towards an enriching family life? (That's my plan!).

Believe me, I understand how hard it is to keep up with a gifted child while juggling work and a family life and completely understand why you'd want to offer her the opportunities private schooling offers =)

You might be interested to look into The Children's University if there are opportunities near you - it helps children have recognition for extra-curricular activities (such as going to the library, museums, etc). Not great but helpful =)

BTW some of the links/resources mentioned earlier are wonderful - we'll be using some of these ourselves!

There is more to life than academics. You have an isolated child who is now going to be very very far away from any friends she makes in the new place, you have a bright child you are considering sending to a less academic school, and you are undoubtedly going to heap more stress on your famly, not to mention possible resentment later of the second child. In your shoes, I´d send her to another school but really, there is too much sacrifice here. Also, dont forget - school trips etc eat it all up too.

Sorry, barging in again.
I don't have concrete advice as such but just would like to tell you what it was like for me- an awkward, anxious, tall, desperately eager to please child that had dyscalculia and was generally told she was bottom of the heap. Oh and bullied. Err, I'm lovely really! In my own way :) I also had the onset of my Crohns dz in middle school leading to prolonged hospital stays, surgery etcetc.

I started off in a veeerry pooosh private school, there I was four years old (tricky birthday) in my straw boater and blazer ready for this huge adventure. Welp, unless there are unicorns farting rainbows over the lawn I will not opt to have my own child's needs met in that environment. In adult hindsight the academic side was not as strong as was made out when the school was talked about but it was a school to make the next VIPs and high achievers; to support and enhance your abilities- My type of personality does not thrive in that environment. Small classes, lots of individual 'moulding'. And the kids were vicious (this is my school- not all schools).

I was moved to a local state school - still bullied, less attention but better basic teaching. When I arrived I did not know my x tables, had no idea about anything that was taught really. But boy could I read - and they let me. Whatever else went on I no longer cared - this was heaven to me! I whizzed through the books and ended up reading middle school books by the end of my first year. I mostly caught up with everything else and got good enough test results to choose where I went - I opted to stay state. Got A*, As and Bs at GCSE (few though due to illness). Off I went.

Life happened and I was cast adrift for a bit - then I decided to become a VN. I took an IQ test and the behest of a lecturer and scored admirably. MENSA well (if that's your thing). First time ever I was encouraged to learn to my actual ability - First. Time. Ever - and have gone on to more education just for fun. I can learn my own way now, it is different from the 26 other people that were in my school room though - not the teachers fault or problem.

You have the advantage here - you recognise your daughter is bright. From my experience your involvement at this stage is the make or break not, necessarily the school. Encouragement, playing to her strengths and building on her weaknesess by communicating with the school and advocating for her. Whichever school. If it were a case of the private school opening doors for your daughter..well, is it one of 'the' schools iyswim? Is it worth what is at stake if the differences between your dd and her peers lessen with age and development. She is 7 after all.
Is she gifted, she's 95th centile - should she be supported? Most definitely; but if her social/emotional needs are not better met at this school it's benefit is lost. You mentioned it is not as academically focussed...as an anxious child I was left struggling with the character building to make me an extrovert.
To be blunt for pegs like me there is no hole that will fit 100% - I would have benefitted from home schooling and social activities on the side with an appropriate peer group. Being left without someone to fight for me I was labelled stupid, taught 'stupid' and consquently became 'stupid' to everyone, me included.

My husband is dyslexic - very intelligent but his very exclusive, expensive, school didn't believe in dyslexia or other ''emotional'' needs he was thick.

I went on to do academically well in a less personal, intense environment in spite of the fact I had no support. No highly populated environment would have been comfortable for me so the lessened intensity in the state school was better.
My husband, stuck where he was left with D & E grades and escaped before A levels. He got 8-8.30 days, ridiculed, left of the development pile and got to hang around with some mates all for a very handsome sum each year.

If it were me I would keep them in state schools, advocating for them as you do and have the lessened money worries (for a given value of lessened) make you available as parents to give that support. To both your daughters. I can only wish I had parents like you!

Please excuse the terrible grammatical errors -it's very late and I can't sleep!

One other thing; I love classical too - played a few instruments as a child. Your DD may like the Piano Guys on youtube. Beautiful compositions using some of the most famous classical pieces mixed with rock, new melodies - you name it! I mention it for two reasons 1) I think she'd love what they have done. 2) It is another means of building a bridge - she likes classical and has knowledge of it but these are fun to dance to with a friend. They aren't the dry music some people view purist classical as. It's a nice introduction into broadening the scope of communication; your DD doesn't have to sacrifice what she enjoys to fit in, she can bring this music with her as far as she wants to. It opens a very interesting door.
Definitely goodnight now :)

I think that the indie school entails too much sacrifice and lots of potential stress in terms of commuting and financial pressure. Wouldn't be worried about the 'non academic' label though - it sounds like your daughter could benefit from social support and that the academic stuff will be fine as long as she is happy. Can't see that home schooling is a good idea - a child who struggles with friendships deliberately isolated from her peers? Um? Is there a way of increasing her happiness at her current school? A different class? Making new friendships through after school activities? Nurturing friendships with some of the boys? It sounds to me as if the school considers your daughter to be bright but not exceptionally 'we can't cope' bright. I think you might need to trust the teachers judgement on this - in my experience, children tell their parents what they think the parents want to hear and the "I'm bored" or 'it's too easy for me' claim is often as disguise for "I'm not coping and i'm going to distract mum and dad from the real issue". If your daughter is really cruising through the work, she needs to be extended breadthsways with independent extension projects over a period of weeks and not one off extension filler tasks or acceleration into a higher year level's work. Certainly a dislike of girlie things is not unusual for a girl and given an interest in architecture, you could encourage her art and design skills, set her up an architectural pinterest board and introduce her to photography. I too wanted to be an architect - as it turned out I became an urban designer before going into teaching and an interest in the built environment from a young age is not especially unusual - I met lots of people like me in the course of my career who nurtured similar ambitions from an early age - there should be others out their with similar passions.

No no no no. My parents financially over stretched themselves to have me educated privately.

The direct results of this were (extreme but true):

• seriously damaged my parents relationship and let to constant fights about money (I always remember Thursday being "Money Fight" start time through to Sunday - that's what I called it from age. 7 )
• led to my mother becoming resentful of me and what was being sacrificed for my education - even though private school was her idea - effectively killing our relationship
• my brothers resenting me for the same reason (they went to state school), and same result, no relationship
• we moved to another country primarily for "better schooling" for me - leading to more resentment, and isolating our family from friends and family.
• over the course of me being at school they financially over stretched themselves by getting into too much mortgage, credit card and store card debt
• after I left home their relationship was so damaged the spiral of money worried and taking on debt continued (they had formed patterns even though I was no longer at school)
• my father, desperate for money, stole funds from his business partner (who was dying of brain cancer at the time so "dear" father thought he could get away with it). He also stole research funds by abusing his university position.
• He got fired and lost his business. My parents had their house repossessed I think. I say I think because I haven't spoken to them in over 2 years, and haven't seen them in nearly 5.

I know this is an extreme case, and there are mental health and serious moral misjudgments involved in my parents' situation. My family wasn't that awesome to begin with. But having experienced the whole shitty scenario I can say without a shadow of a doubt this started from taking on too much financially with my school fees and leaving absolutely no spare cash for anything else.

PLEASE, OP. Don't do it.

It's a

Poor you

I would also advise against

not sure why, just my gut tells me there are other ways to address w/o bankrupting you

good luck xxxxx

Sorry meant to add: I know my posts adds no helpful advice about your daughter's particular predicament.

If she needs further mental stimulation, could you arrange private tutoring for her in eg maths?

Speaking as someone who, as a child, was very bright and "odd", I doubt this new school will be a silver bullet. She might be treated the same by kids at the new school. Are there other extra-curricular activities you can involve her with to improve her social skills? DH used to run a sports club and lots of kids were there for that reason (it worked, generally).

I don't think you should do it

Private isn't a 'magic wand' to better educated, happier kids

This school, in my opinion, could further alienate her from other kids - sounds like the children there might live in a (happy) bubble but I don't think that's particularly healthy or helpful for her in the long run

You will have no money - you have made that clear. You simply cannot live that. You cannot afford private eductaion

I think you would be naive to believe that this is the answer. What other options exist, state and private, closer by ? She may even feel more isolated and unhappy living so far away from the relatively few potential friends there. You have the current head's view on their flexibility but this could well change if he/she left or the school was taken over/closed (as is happening every year at the moment). You not only woudl have the financial effect of fees (plus trips, uniforms, activities and so on ?) to consider but the cost and logistical issues including getting your younger child to another school with different holidays, hours etc or dragging him/her along. By the time you got back she also may well be too tired or late to pursue her current out of school activities which socially would be a great shame. Sorry, even if the finances were more promising I'm not convinced it is worth it for this place - and I speak as one who has put 2 through private prep and now secondary.

I agree with freerangeeggs-I would look for other state options.