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AIBU?

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Original poster

This has made me so angry..working mums, we are the devils work

391 replies

sh1t · 26/04/2012 19:50

I read this, and wish I hadn't

paid strangers to look after our kids

I sort of get the sentiment behind it, but the tone of smuggery just irks me, and the post is so skewed to mums, what about dads. The author claims she is a feminist, but I can't see it.

OP posts:
Itcouldhappentoanymum · 27/04/2012 11:23

I read it and felt sick....gut wrenching guilt, sadness, regret, grief and that is coming from someone who has been labelled an unfit mother by social services at my two work places and at my son's school - because I was depressed and went to seek help from a newly qualified locum gp I did not know.

Don't make mums feel guilty for their choices they are sometimes forced to make - we feel enough guilt without all that.

wordfactory · 27/04/2012 11:25

seahouses no one is saying they must work. Just that they can't receive a subsidy if they want to remain at home.

To me that's fair enough.

I will do as I see fit with my DC but will not expect the tax payer to subsidise me. I mean come on, do we really expect working families who place thier DC in childcare to subsidise those who don't want to? I mean really?

SeaHouses · 27/04/2012 11:28

Is subsidy a euphemism for benefits. In other words, nobody is forcing to work, but if they don't they won't have enough money to heat their houses and feed their children?

SeaHouses · 27/04/2012 11:30

As far as I'm aware WF, a lot of people who do put their children into childcare do so because the state pays them child tax credits, so the tax payer is subsidising a lot of those families.

And yes, I do think the taxpayer should pay SAHMs, because childcare is a job.

porcamiseria · 27/04/2012 11:31

STARTAIL

How does providing better child care equate with not valuing SAHMs?

you are the second or third to say this. I dont see the link?

fact- alot of families have 2 workers
fact- alot of people find c-care to expensive, esp compared with EU neighbours

Where does this link to saying that SAHM not valued?

i genuinely dont get it!!!!

ColinFirthsGirth · 27/04/2012 11:31

Wordfactory - am I missing something here?

I don't believe, I, or anyone else has said they want to hinder working mothers that want to go back to work. I also totally agree with affordable chldcare. In fact, what I actually wrote was that childcare workers should have greater recognition, better pay etc and in SOME cases the quality should be improved.

My household earns under 16,000 by the way and I resent a politician undervaluing my choice to stay at home with my children and implying that I am no good to the economy if I am not doing some paid work.

I do wish people would read posts properly before they make sweeping statements.

wordfactory · 27/04/2012 11:32

Subsidy could be benefits/tax breaks...whatever.

But the point is that if you do not wish to work because you wish to be a SAHP, then you must support that yourself.

If you cannot find work, or cannot work for whatever reason then that is a different matter. That is what the net is for. To look after the vulnerable. But it is not there to support those who choose not to work.

SeaHouses · 27/04/2012 11:36

Right, WF, that is your opinion.

But it is then disingenuous to say, as you have done, that SAHMs don't have to use childcare. Because you are actually saying that they don't have to use childcare if they don't mind having no money whatsoever and so either starving to death or taking their kids out to forage in bins.

If SAHMs are to be made to work for 15 hours a week or lose benefits then obviously they are going to care a lot about what kind of childcare is put in place.

OrmIrian · 27/04/2012 11:36

"Perhaps most crucially of all, they are learning about the meaning of relationship from the people who care for them; how to love, and be loved."

Hmmm....how does my going out to work fail to teach my children the 'meaning of relationship' ?

wordfactory · 27/04/2012 11:37

colin you made it abundantly clear that you resented Nick Clegg's words and policy.

As I say, you can set your own family up as you wish. Of course you can and you should. I don't doubt that the choices you make are all excellent for you and your family. But you can't expect others to pay you for those choices. You cannot expect working families to pay other families not to work.

ColinFirthsGirth · 27/04/2012 11:42

If childcare is made more affordable is it not tax payers money that will be paying for this?

Yes, we got tax credits and that topped up our household income so that I could stay at home with my children. I don't feel guilty about that - my husband works very hard but is on a ridiculously low wage for what he does, why shouldn't I have a choice to stay at home with my children just because some employers won't pay a living wage. I wasn't being lazy, I was looking after my children!

wordfactory - I could turn your statement around and say that if people wish to be a working parent then they should pay all childcare costs and that it shouldn't be subsidised by the government.

In my opinion, people should have the choice either way. Saying that the government won't subsidise stay at home parents on less that 16,000 isn't giving them a choice at all.

wordfactory · 27/04/2012 11:43

sea if any of us decide not to work for whatever reason, we cannot enter into that decision expecting others to pay for it.

Over the years I have taken breaks from work to go to another country, to SAH and to write a book. They were all my choices and I supported them accordingly.

SAHPs may feel they deserve to be supported but frankly those doing the supporting don't appear to feel inclined to do so.

SeaHouses · 27/04/2012 11:43

I have no idea why it preferable for the state to pay childcare for a mother to work than to pay for the mother to stay at home, particularly if it ends up costing the state more to pay for the childcare, as often seems to have happened with the tax credit system.

DuelingFanjo · 27/04/2012 11:44

one thing I dislike about government policy is that there is no room for manoeuvre if you are a single parent. Single parents will be expected to look for work when they might want to SAH. It's not particularly fair on them having to take badly paid work which may not fit their children's school hours or which may not pay well enough for good childcare.

SAHM who have a husband/partner in work are not being forced into work AFAICS? They can still make the choice to stay at home - at least they have a choice.

MrsHeffle CC/CIO is, imo, horrible for children and it does have an effect on their development. I haven't anywhere said that childcare options (nurseries/childminders) don't have an effect on a child's development. Everything you do has an effect on their development. I don't believe that ALL out of the home childcare = bad things for child development though.

DuelingFanjo · 27/04/2012 11:46

"2 year olds in families on an income of less than 16,000 will have to spend 15 hours a week in childcare and their mothers must work"

wow. this is an odd thing for him to say.
so he has said that if my husband was only earning £16,000 a year I would be forced into the work place? So he's saying all households must earn more than £16,000 a year?

SeaHouses · 27/04/2012 11:46

I am prepared to pay benefits to low income families with a SAHM, as are many other people. As a consequence many families have come to expect it, and also expect to pay quite high taxes compared to other countries and have little state support when their children grow up.

Having young children is one short stage in a person's life. They have the rest of their lives to work and support other people with young children.

DuelingFanjo · 27/04/2012 11:52

I am prepared to pay benefits to low income single parent families, those genuinely in need. Would I like those single parents to be better supported so they can look for work? Hell yes.

I personally don't think supporting the choice of one half of a couple to be a SAHP financially should be a top priority for me - it should be the responsibility of the working parent.

I am about to put in a request to drop to 4 days instead of 5 - I have discussed this with my DH who is going to be the one plugging the gap financially. I will lose more pay than I will save in nursery fees and we will be slightly worse off. I don't expect tax payers/the government to support me financially for making this choice.

MrsHeffley · 27/04/2012 11:53

Sorry Duelling you can't say all cc is horrible and has an effect on children,you clearly have no experience of it.

All children would rather be with their mothers than be in nursery/elsewhere.If you go by all the studies you read and what young children want sorry but I could easily say all childcare provision is horrible for children as they'd far rather be at home with their mum.As a result childcare must have a negative effect on them.

I wouldn't as one size doesn't fit all,children and mothers differ as do life circumstances.You'd do well to remember that sometimes.

SeaHouses · 27/04/2012 11:57

DF, but most families with preschool children will be financially supported by the state whether the mum is a SAHM or if the state pays the childcare bill through tax credits both parents can work.

This scheme is going to cost the government 650 million pounds extra supposedly, so it seems bizarre to argue in favour of it on the grounds that some people don't want to have to pay for other people's childcare choices.

DuelingFanjo · 27/04/2012 11:59

"All children would rather be with their mothers than be in nursery/elsewhere"

My son loves being with my mother. I obviously can't ask him if he would prefer me and I imagine he might do given the chance, but that doesn't mean he is hating the 8 hours he has with my mum every week. He has an attachment to her and an attachment to several people who care for him on the other days. Most likely his preference would be me, Daddy, granny, Shel in the nursery... He spends far less time with daddy but it hopefully isn't damaging him.

It is my opinion that CC/CIO is very distressing for young children which is why I wouldn't do it to my child.

ColinFirthsGirth · 27/04/2012 12:00

Seahorses - yes, I agree it is a short stage and now my children are at school I do work and will happliy support other people on their stay at home or working parent journey. But I am grateful that tax credits meant I could stay at home with my chldren when they were young as we couldn't have afforded for me to do this on my husbands wage of £10,000 at the time.

duelling - I feel very sorry for single mothers who don't have much choice either way. It must be incredibly hard being a single mother and I feel there should be plenty of provision for such people. However, if this policy does come in and I had pre-school children now, I would have been virtually forced to work and there wouldn't have been a choice for me even with a husband as he earns such a low wage.

ColinFirthsGirth · 27/04/2012 12:01

I probably being thick but what is cc/cio?

MrsHeffley · 27/04/2012 12:03

None of my dc found cc distressing,they thrived on it.This positive experience has been the same for many posters and tirelessly pointed out by many people on many threads.

Sorry I think you're being very hypocritical.

MrsHeffley · 27/04/2012 12:05

Oh and I'd never, ever leave my children in a nursery setting-doesn't give me the right to make other people feel crap about their parenting choices though does it.