to think the state should pay part of our private school fees?

[wolvesarejustoldendaydogs]

Don't jump down my throat! It's just a thought.

State schools are overcrowded and there aren't enough good ones. Private schools are expensive.

What if every child had a right to have their state school 'payment' (whatever it costs per child per year') paid to a private school? Obviously parents would have to top-up (probably a considerable amount).

That would create a bit of a market, with more choice, making private schools more affordable and state ones less overcrowded.

Or is it a stupid idea for a reason I will think of soon after pressing 'POST'?

If you can afford to send your DCs to private school then you don't need a paltry 15 hours free each week!

Nursery is different as there is not national state provision in the same was as for schools.

In our area there is very little state pre-school, either attached to schools or otherwise, and the private sector fill the gap. The vast majority of preschoolers who attend a setting do so at a private one. They all accept the funding from age 3, this is the bulk of their business.

If you stopped allowing the state funding to go to the private nurseries then most of the children would leave and would have nowhere to go.

It is comparing apples with oranges.

Would I like a voucher towards my DC's schools fees? You betcha.

But seriously, no, it wouldn't be right.

And also, if there was some sort of state subsidy, you can bet the state would want some sort of involvement. No thanks.

yabu, it was your choice to go private so you should pay

I do think it is fairer if it could at least come out of pre-taxed income. Especially for those people who have moved to private to get their child away from a bully / difficult situation and are busting a gut to pay. They would have gone state, but it didn't work out the way they intended and we all would hope.

I also remember assisted places (25% at my independent grammar school) - didn't benefit but had a few friends who did. I went private only for 6th form as my school said that maths statistics and history and a language was an idiotic combination if you wanted to study economic history - my parents believed in state education. Fortunately my parents could pay - other people got forced into A-levels that suited the school's statistics, and not the university course options they wanted to apply for.

Anyway what I remember most about assisted placed is the difference between brothers - one of whom passed the entrance exam and the others who didn't and who went to the local sink school. Really, really sad. But I think my friends wouldn't have been the same people without assisted places. For really academically inclined kids in rough areas, they were a godsend. Just my opinion in one area of UK. It also created people who were passionate about giving back to the community and realised how lucky they were.

I would support the idea of being able pay fees out of pre-tax income even if it was just done on a neutral basis that you were only allowed to avoid tax on fees up to the proportion of your tax bill that would be allocated to education spending.

I suspect that this is unworkably complex.

funkybuddah

"'bad' schools will never get any better if a range of student dont go to them.
If you perception of 'bad' is due to ofsted, well they are a load of crap anyway"

Totally agree, the way to make any aspect of society better isn't to give large numbers of people who care the opportunity to 'opt out' of that aspect of society.

"Im starting to think Im in a minority who send their child to their catchment/local school , only catastrophic goings on would deter me"

Me too.

While we're brainstorming new ideas to improve eduacation for all, how about doing it the other way round. Abolish private schools and introduce a statutory means tested fee system so the children of the poorest would get their state eductaion for free, whilst everyione else would pay a contribution towards their child's education based on their household income. Would this level the playing field and provide more cash into the school system to help bring standards up to those currently provided by private schools?

Idealistic I know just wonder what people's views would be (not being intentionally inflammatory by the way).

Of course they should OP.

Also people without children should get an allowance for staying childless.

Private health care patients should get their beds subsidised each night according to the cost it would be to stay in an NHS

Private renters should have their rents subsidised to local authority levels

People with long private drives who don't park on the road should have a subsidy on their car tax

Businesses who use private security firms should get a rebate on their taxes for putting less pressure on the state

It would be impossible to manage and where would you draw the line? We do send DD to a private school but its a private decision and we do not expect the state to pay any more than we would expect them to pay in the above scenarios. I admit it would be nice though

I suppose I am thinking of the private school system as just another branch of the state education - if you take the view that all children in the UK should be educated, and there are different ways to achieve this - state schools, private schools and home education. If the state is contributing £x amount for each child's education, perhaps the parents should have the right to decide which establishment their child and that money goes to. Just a thought.

'While we're brainstorming new ideas to improve eduacation for all, how about doing it the other way round. Abolish private schools and introduce a statutory means tested fee system so the children of the poorest would get their state eductaion for free, whilst everyione else would pay a contribution towards their child's education based on their household income. Would this level the playing field and provide more cash into the school system to help bring standards up to those currently provided by private schools?'

Hairytoe - actually I think that's quite a good idea. Apart from the abolishing private schools bit - if they are doing education better, then abolishing them is silly, we should not go to the lowest denominator but try to find ways to lift standards to those levels everywhere (also idealistic, I know).

YABU.

Is it £5000 a year funding per state school child countrywide or does it vary by area?

DD's private school fees are £5010 this year.

Grahamtribe - don't state school pupils get to be lawyers then? Better not tell my DC who is doing that very thing at present at a top university - or my barrister who defended me from my abusive exH. Both products of state education, as am I, with rather alot of letters after my name, most of them to do with education and learning.

The most important indicator of pupil success in education is parental interest and involvement. Private school teachers don't even have to be qualified teachers! The main reason most of my friends sent their DC to private school was to keep them away from the rest of us plebs.

Most private schools are highly selective, with smaller classes and not so much disruption from 'difficult' pupils. Of course they are going to have better average results than most state schools who have to take everyone.

I am totally opposed to private education, and think it should be abolished and the German model adopted here. It just props up the class system in the UK, and is not any better than state education at all, when compared like for like. It makes me LOL when I see my friends' DC in their menial jobs, or no jobs, after their years of very expensive private education, compared to my own DC with their 'inferior' state education, who are making something of themselves.

What a waste of money!

I think I'd start haranguing for a tax rebate if if HMG ever started to tax private education.

But I also think that the state needs to spend more per pupil, and give teachers more authority to deal with poor discipline in classes.

OP This idea of a "voucher" system for education has been bandied about for years. YANBU but it will never come to anything as the Government has bigger fish to fry.

I am totally opposed to private education, and think it should be abolished and the German model adopted here. It just props up the class system in the UK, and is not any better than state education at all, when compared like for like

There is nothing stopping anyone starting the German model here, now - but I'd only get rid of the private education system when all the new Grammar schools Gymnasiums are built and prove they have the quality of output.

I live in Germany and here we get tax relief on private school fees up to a maximum level. Only if the school is properly registered with the state and then only on a certain percentage of the school fees - still worth having though.

The german state school system is not all it's made out to be - OK if you do well and get on with your teachers but if you don't get put forward for Gymnasium (grammar school) then your lot in life is going to be pretty poor - for example you can't easily go to university if you've not been to grammar. It's also a very inflexible system - if you don't fit the hole then you're going to struggle.

"In time, if relatively wealthy, motivated parents saw no advantage in going private, then I think they would fight for better provision in state schools, instead of opting out. That would benefit everyone."

To what extent would that really happen though? I suspect state schools might improve a little if that happened, but I don't think class sizes would halve or resources improve enormously, or results shoot upwards.

I don't for one minute think that money automatically means "motivated parents". For some choosing private education, it might actually mean "let's leave it all to the school".

And even if there was one ex-private-school pupil in each class with "motivated" parents I think that would make virtually no difference as they'd get swept along with the system the way it is, and probably get demoralised at how little difference they could make with their efforts so diluted.

If you abolished private schools, the government would continue to accept a level of education pretty much like they already have, as they seem to feel it's good enough, and any "extra" money would probably end up somewhere else.

I'd prefer to see grammar schools reintroduced so then at least selection is more likely to be on ability rather than money.

Surely our tax system already means that the amount each individual pays into the state coffers depends on earnings - why add a layer of administration on top to further complicate matters to pay for an for education which every individual has a right to receive regardless of income???

"It makes me LOL when I see my friends' DC in their menial jobs"

nice.

yanbu
them my brother can get all the tax he has paid in for anything to do with children as he can't have them.
I can get money back for all the things my dd can't do as she is disbled(think of all the parks dh's taxes hep fund)

I was taking the piss, to an extent, gettingagrip. That aside, I'm in no way in agreement with your personal views re state vs private. If state education's what you wanted for your kids, that's fine by me :) but I draw the line at you, the state or any other John Doe telling me that that's what I should have for mine. The German education system, which includes legislation making HE illegal apart from very exceptional cases, generally concerning serious ill health, is an affront to personal freedoms imho.

As I understand it the big plus of the German system over the Grammar School system is that entry to the Gymnasium is not a one off 11+ event, but later developers can also get in if they show real promise.

BBQ - yes it was really nice when they all treated us like lepers as we went to the local comp. Their private schools were so much better doncha know. Our DC were looked down upon from a very great height.

I also LOL when I read threads like this about how superior private schools are - when I know how many of those same pupils are having private tutors along with their ridiculously expensive superior education. I know this as I tutor them! Me - the inferior product of a state school!

Grahamtribe - it wasn't funny. Actually I have no objection to HE. If that's what you want to do that's fine by me. I do know many HE children. I have tutored many. It wouldn't be for me though.

And to answer the OP - no there should not be any money taken away from state schools. In fact, many of the schools in deprived areas should have much more money spent on them. So no to paying your school fees.