to think the state should pay part of our private school fees?

[wolvesarejustoldendaydogs]

Don't jump down my throat! It's just a thought.

State schools are overcrowded and there aren't enough good ones. Private schools are expensive.

What if every child had a right to have their state school 'payment' (whatever it costs per child per year') paid to a private school? Obviously parents would have to top-up (probably a considerable amount).

That would create a bit of a market, with more choice, making private schools more affordable and state ones less overcrowded.

Or is it a stupid idea for a reason I will think of soon after pressing 'POST'?

YABU. If people want to educate their children privately, then they should pay the going rate, just as car drivers pay for their car.

As for every child having the right to go to private school, I think you'll find those schools would disagree and are very picky indeed as to who they let in, money or no.

We find this in Australia when the private schools ditch their drug dealers/arsey kids asap, and the not quite bright enough kids when the exam years loom.

As for the those on the spectrum, they don't get a foot in the door.

tax relief on school fees. ditto on private health insurance..

sunnydelight all is far from rosy in Australia. The funding is a fucking disgrace. The idea that taxpayers who can never get into the private school prop them up with taxes makes my blood boil.

The right to a school place by being in the zone is good, though. Notice it's only government schools that have this obligation.

The schools themselves get huge tax breaks due to charitable status. If you can't afford private education then don't opt for it.

I think the best thing Australia has done is to avoid having a league table, and long may they continue to fight it.

League tables are the work of the devil, and are the reason why there are so many 'bad' schools here in the UK.

Spot on, Apple Same for private health insurance. If you want to jump the queue - pay for it.

You are being completely unrealistic. Why on earth should I pay (through my taxes) for your child to attend a private school?

As for overcrowded schools. I was a teacher for a lot of years and actually many schools are undersubscribed. It very much depends on your town, city and area of the country. It isn't even always the poorly performing schools that are undersubscribed but good schools too.

YANBU

If the council gave me the £3500 towards private school fees I would probably stick my children in the local private school and be able to work more because of before and after care that the school offers.

Tax breaks for the parents paying the fee's might work...much like the system in Australia that incentivises people who can afford private health care to get it by giving tax breaks (don't know the full details as don't live there anymore but its quite a sound system)

YABU.

What is it with mumsnet and fucking private schools?

I need to start hiding threads with the words 'private /independent school' in the title.

As a state-educated teacher in a state school, they wind me up too much.

You think your child's too good for state school; you pay for it yourself.

YABU. Firstly, education should not be a 'market' and it's adherence to the idea that it should be that has created problems for so many educational establishments. A market will never treat participants equally. Neither will life, but at least a non-market based system has equality of opportunity as a starting point.

Secondly, it would condemn poorer students to a lesser, underfunded education to a much greater degree than exists at present. That's fundamentally wrong, particularly in a society like ours where a lot of social/class stratification still exists.

Chitchat the league tables are here via NAPLAN scores. Anyone with a brain can see that multiple choice testing is easy to mark, and of limited value, but this doesn't stop the primary schools in particular from flogging their kids to get better scores. Scores which do not even get transferred to the secondary school.

I already see children limp with boredom because of it and it's only 3 years old.

Tatty if you have over a certain income, you get walloped with more tax for NOT having private insurance. It's not good. It's shit.

Do grandparents still get tax breaks for paying school fees?

The state already subsidises private schools via tax breaks for charitable status and teachers' pensions; this reduces the fees you pay as a parent.

Lots of replies (which I expected!) and lots of very measured replies (which I didn't completely expect, so great).

I probably worded the OP badly, it's not a self-interested one (we are expecting to do a mixture of private/state, and are happy with how we are paying for it). It's more a musing on whether there is a better way of doing it.

All the posters who know about the Australian system - thank you, it does sound like there is a much better balance there (and explains why my Australian friend is so relaxed about her schooling options and bemused at English people's obsession with the subject).

The tax relief is an interesting idea - both for school fees/childcare (not equating the too!) and private healthcare. I think Australia requires people to have private healthcare too.

Anyway. I have to pick up DS for a hospital appointment now. One I would quite happily do privately (and not have it cancelled on arrival constantly...) but there are no private options within several hundred miles.

friend in Australia struggles every year with the list of books you mu provide and thats at a state school

Also, just wondering about 'equality of opportunity'. That's equality within the national zone, obviously. If we were all forced to go to state schools (which I'm not necessarily opposed to) would that put UK children at a disadvantage internationally when they are older?

OP - you must know that your suggestion will benefit already priviliged children and leave those children living below the poverty line in sinking schools with dwindling numbers and fewer opportunities? I despair.

Heidihole - I do not really get the logic of your argument either. The state school is paid per pupil if numbers doubled over night obviously that would be a problem but all children could be absorbed given time and if Private schools were abolished the buildings could be annexed for new state schools. That would be a surmountable 'problem'. Tax is paid for many things you use infrequently or don't support, for services you will use in the future (pensions, Health Service) and for services you may hope you never need (Housing Benefit Income support) - rebating for everything you are not currently using is insane.

I agree there should be tax breaks on private healthcare too.

Schools do get tax breaks through charitable status, but that's a good thing! It doesn't mean they are subsidised! They are not for profit organisations that educate children, why the hell should that be taxed!? Especially when the people who use them are already paying for the state system through tax? These are still children that deserve an education!

So the parents that could afford it would move their kids into private schools, and the poorer kids would end up stuck in a state system with even less funding than it has now. Yeah, sounds like a great idea .

bigmouth "rebating for everything you are not currently using is insane."

Yes exactly what I said in my post! So we agree :)

I guess it's personal experience echt. We sent DS1 to our local high school (no problem getting in) but was told by the head of English after five weeks that "dyslexia is no excuse for poor spelling" so I was VERY grateful to find an amazing private school that welcomed him and nurtured him through the remaining 4 years of high school that I could actually afford. We get absolutely zilch in tax credits or anything but the amount we pay in tax is staggering so personally I feel that fact that private education is government funded gives us something for our tax dollars. We could never afford the $20k plus a year "elite" schools either but I don't really give a shit, nor do I begrudge those who can - I can spend my life feeling bad about what I can't afford or enjoy what I can.

I think it is a stupid idea. Taking money away from state schools to pay private school fees when the state school budgets are already very tight?? Utterly daft.

And I will have 2 children in private secondary from September.

Humancatapult You're so right about books in Australian schools. The publishers change texts' details every couple of years, a page here or there, rendering the old ones unsellable. I've seen 5 versions of "The Outsiders", all different page numbers, try working that in a class.

I've had publishers approach me for personalised study texts for my school, based on the texts we work on...sooo what if we change the text? They can't be sold on. Seriously thinking of going only for Penguin books which don't change the page numbers. Fuck 'em.

And don't talk to me about school uniforms.