to think the state should pay part of our private school fees?

[wolvesarejustoldendaydogs]

Don't jump down my throat! It's just a thought.

State schools are overcrowded and there aren't enough good ones. Private schools are expensive.

What if every child had a right to have their state school 'payment' (whatever it costs per child per year') paid to a private school? Obviously parents would have to top-up (probably a considerable amount).

That would create a bit of a market, with more choice, making private schools more affordable and state ones less overcrowded.

Or is it a stupid idea for a reason I will think of soon after pressing 'POST'?

x-posted with outraged who is far more eloquent than I.

So why did you think you we in a private school? Did you have state school friends? Didn't you talk about it at all? How bizarrely incurious of you!

In the town where my dd goes to school there is a definite " caste " system. The boys from the very prestigious public school go out with the girls from the grammar school, but not from the high schools. The public school girls only go out with the boys from the same school- they won't go out with the grammar school boys, and they don't even know that the oys from the high school exist! The grammar school boys go out with the girls from the high schools, but the girls from the grammar only go out with grammar nd pubcli school boys. It's a minefield, I tell you!

happy - the school was perfectly good enough for my DC, it was what happened at home that determined their life paths after school years were finished, and this also determined what they put into and got out of school days. In other words it was MY input that really made the difference. My input with the DC and also with the schools.

And they succeeded in different ways, as they are of course different people, against a backdrop of abuse and hostility from one parent, and others. As the daughter of an immigrant who came here without a pot to piss in, education is the way out of poverty IMVHO, but that includes the parent, school and the wider community.

If I had a trillion pounds I would not have sent them to private school, and I know they would not have wanted to go. We have many private schools in this area, and many of their friends went to these schools. None of them are doing any better than my DC, and many of them are doing a lot worse.

All that money....

' My local school was not "good enough" for my DS and it may not be good enough for others but I had a choice so I exercised it. That is my prerogative. Not exercising it would not have made a jot of difference to those children who the school is not good enough for.'

It's very sad that you can't see that it would, even though the reasons for that have been pointed out on this thread quite a few times. There is no such thing as society - seems that some really live that doctrine.

'Even then I didn't have any idea that it was an amount of money that would be the equivalent to an income for some people.'

Shocking.

"'Even then I didn't have any idea that it was an amount of money that would be the equivalent to an income for some people.'

er- isn't that the sort of mind set we're talking about? I feel as if you've just made my case for me!

Maybe I need your case explained a little more clearly then Seeker, because I was just answering your post that said And of course the know that little Jimmys parents don't thnk that x school is good enough for him. And so does little Jimmy

I don't know what my parents were thinking about when they chose my schools, it was mainly my Dads descison and he's no longer with us. My Mum pretty much went along with what he wanted. I can only speak for myself, and I never thought that I was at private school because other schools weren't good enough for me! I grew up in London, most of my friends from before I was old enough to go to school didn't live in exactly the same area as we did, so I just grew up just knowing people went to different schools and that was that. You don't question something that is all you know until you are a lot older.

Why did you think you were in a private school?

Because children go to school! That's it! School was school, children don't make the distinction. And when I did realise I was at a different type of school, I really cannot remember thinking about it. It's the same as my dc knowing that one is at a CofE school, one is at a GS, while others go to catholic school or community schools. It's a non event. I had plenty of friend from the three comps around my school and where I lived, and friends from a boys private school too.

"It's very sad that you can't see that it would, even though the reasons for that have been pointed out on this thread quite a few times."
gettingagrip So because I don't agree with you I'm sad in this wonderful society/community that you wax lyrical about will everyone agree with you and those who don't will be labelled as "sad." Not much of a society if you ask me! I think I'll stick with my type of society not perfect but where difference of opinion is listened too and respected and not labelled.
I too don't have "trillions" of pounds and like many work hard for every penny of it and I know that sending my DS to his indie school means that he will finish in four years time a happier more rounded individual than if he'd gone to the local state school and ultimately that is all I ask for from education.

Everyone does their best for their own DC. Some people have more choice than others-that already gives them an advantage-they don't need extra help.

happy the evidence shows that where there are big socio-economic differences between schools, a poor social background becomes more of an obstacle to educational success.

I'm not sure how you can disagree with that.

I suspect children at independent schools mostly think they're there because their parents chose it for them because they thought it would be best for them. Given that everyone these days can put schools in a preference list I imagine that's exactly the same for all children at all schools, but wealthier parents have a wider choice it's true (not just in schools either - money gives more choice for everything pretty much).

It may not be that parents think the local school isn't 'good enough', rather that they feel another school is better (either generally or for their child specifically) in some way (eg length of holidays, specialist provision or subject choice or whatever). Given no two people have exactly the same views on what they want out of a school it's no wonder people rank schools differently or make different choices.

When they're old enough to realise how much it costs, privately educated dc think their parents place a high value on education (and form their own opinions as to the wisdom of that). I doubt most think they're 'above' others, just luckier (or unluckier if they themselves value good holidays/material things more highly and they are going without). Many choose to move to the state system for sixth form or before, so they clearly don't think they are too good for it or in any way above their peers.

The 'caste' thing you describe sounds horrible seeker. My dc have friends from a wide range of schools and I've not been aware of that sort of thing.

I have some sympathy for those of you who think education is so important every child should have the same, but while choice exists I will exercise mine and choose what I think is best for my child from what is available to me. If you were to ban private education entirely where would you draw the line? Would tutoring for struggling (or not struggling) kids still be allowed - I don't see how to prevent it. What about art classes, languages classes, ballet, swimming, riding lessons etc? Where do you stop in your effort for equality? I think as we don't live in a communist country, then we have to allow choice and the way forward is to make sure that state provision is so good people don't feel tempted to go private.

Noblegitaffe I don't disagree with but sending my DS to state school rather than an independent school will not impact on it in ny shape or form.

I ccompletely agree with gelatinous this is a free society certainly when compared with many others and I am exercising my choices. Ok it's not fair on those who cant for whatever reason but there is nothing I as an individual can do about it, She hastily deletes very controversial sentence.

Why do you keep thinking that it's all about you, Happy? If private schools were scrapped it wouldn't just be your kids.

Well now talk of ballet and riding lessons......the thread is about education, not actvities... The thread is on a hiding tn nothing as always there is someone's child who is more "special" than other people's children and absolutely MUST go to private school....poor children rarely seem to be quite so over-achieving though imhe.

Ban, ban, ban and focus all the money and interest in state schools. Put proper provision in place for those with SN and learning difficulties. Have a local programme to deal with GENUINE gifted and talented children. End the elitism. It is criminally wrong in this day and age.

where do you draw the line between education and activities? Dance is on the curriculum, you can do a GCSE in it. You can do riding as part of a PE GCSE too. That means children doing those things outside school are advantaged in those subjects in school. If you don't allow private schools shouldn't you also ban doing those 'activities' outside school too or things won't be fair? The point I'm trying to make is that it would be impossible to legislate that all children have equal opportunities, especially in a democratic society.

I don't think most schools offer riding and ballet as part of the curriculum. You can of course do these to your heart's content out of school. Every school should follow the same curriculum of course.

It is easier to bridge an extra curricular activity gap than it is an entire schooling gap. Many more parents can afford dance lessons than private school. Schools offer extra curricular activities for free. The pupil premium can be used to buy such activities for disadvantaged students.

" Every school should follow the same curriculum of course." That really depresses me.

A friend's dc did riding as part of her PE GCSE at a local comp btw. and surely dance is offered at most schools in some form (maybe not ballet, but it's got to have some transferable skills)?

I live in a country where there are no truly private schools, unless you count the foreign language ones. I love the fact that the Royal Family send their kids to state schools and follow the exact same curriculum as my pfb. Of course they will have opportunities that my dd won't have, but access to education isn't one of them.

Noblegiraffe it isn't about "me" im sure many of those other parents of the 7 % who are educated in the independent sector probably feel as I do. Why do you think you have a right to stop us from paying for our children's schooling?

Remove the incentive to educate privately, as they do in Finland, where you can set up a private school, but can't keep anyone out who wants to go there.

Unsurprisingly, mots people send their children to state schools.

They are also sensible, and start schooling later.

Because it's detrimental to society, happy? Sure we might get a few more A* grades at GCSE for the already privileged but is that worth it if consequentially we have more kids leaving school without basic functional skills or C grades in maths and English?

From what I can see in Finland, private schools can't charge fees either, so can't select on parental income.