to wonder if I should ask for payment for childcare from a friend

[Belleflowers]

basically, a new friend has 3 kids 10, 8 and 7. Her husband works lots and she has just had major surgery in London, meaning she is out of action for the forseeable.

I had offered to pick up all 3 kids take them to mine after school with my 2 kids one day each week, 2 pm until 6pm. their dad usually got them at 7pm.

now it turns out she needs them picked up and looked after tues wed and thursday afternoons. apparently no other parents or mums from school have offered help with pickup or a rota when she has told them she'll be out of action for about 7 mths.

so i have said I'll do it.

Thing is, they havent mentioned anything regarding payment, as basically this is a childminding offer from me, and it will mean my afternoons 3 days a week between 2pm and 6pm are involved with her kids here, just as i was about to start looking for part time work.

Both her husband and herself have said indirectly jokingly 'ohhhj are you sure, we'll have to give you something for it.

..I've said 'sure! ' but nothing forthcoming or definite has emerged from anyone.

they told me they were paying 250 a week to a childminder before, but she doesnt want to get a childminder now.

but i figure i need to get paid - i want to help my friend, but dont want to be taken for a bit of a walkover and It is a lot of driving around for all their extra curricular activites after school etc.

am i being unreasonable to expect payment for this favour? how do i go about it?

you do realise this is very illegal, don't you? Should anything happen to the kids whilst they're in your care you would be in big trouble for acting as an illegal childminder. In fact, you can be anyone if someone reports you.

You offered to do 1 day per week and as this was a favour, this should be free. It was very generous of you.

But having then asked you to do a serious amount extra (triple your generous offer), they do need to pay you and are taking the piss by expecting you to do this for free.

I would just say to them that you were totally happy to help them out one day per week as you knew they were in a tight spot, but what you are now proposing is a major undertaking that will affect your ability to look for part time work so you want paying for the extra but will still do your original one day per week offered for free.

Thanks, some logical minds here this morning, making me see some sense about this

I dont think i can actually logistically and physically and emotionally see how this is going to actually work over such a longterm.

I dont want the responsibility of so much if I'm honest, I thought I was just doing a favour to a friend one afternoon a week!

How do I get out of it?

Will I do this week then ask them to rethink their plans?

If it were me, I would get a nanny or childminder properly in place for those days, rather than rely on a friend who has kids of her own and a husband who works away a lot.

Silly me. But I feel torn. And will feel crap for changing the plans on everyone.

you cant expect payment when you say its ok without specifying that you want to be paid for it.

Sorry but if you were offering as a friend then asking for payment isn't an option. But if you were doing it in the hope of getting paid for it you should have really asked up front so that they would have the choice to use your services or not.

Hmmm I had a friend who went through this once, although the other party was offering to pay. So she managed to do it through the 'it would be illegal for me to look after your child without being a registered childminder' route.

But in your case, you also need to bear in mind that even as a favour, if one of them had a really bad accident (worst case scenario - life-changing) in your home, you wouldn't be insured and your friends may blame you. It's a massive responsibility. I know that sounds like a clinical way of doing things but these days you have to think about these things.

My DParents have a swimming pool and when my youngest sibling was in his early teens, my parents had the parents of any of his friends that wanted to use the pool, sign a letter saying that my parents wouldn't be held responsible if anything happened. They just felt that in this world of 'blame culture' they had to cover their backs. All the parents signed the letters, no questions asked, which was surprising in itself.

wasnt hoping to ever get paid for the one afternoon

initially i was doing it as a favour

was never expecting childminder rates etc

but yes, expenses would be good, esp petrol.

i think i'll do it for just this week, then suggest can i just do thursdays as before

will suggest its best for everyone if a childminder is arranged or if the family asks school again for a rota from available parents. other parents have firmly said no, whereas i havent been so firm. which i should have been.

I can see it getting a bit stressy to be honest.

I feel so selfish but i think she needs other more reliable backup than just me esp as one poster said, if something happens when they are under my care etc.

Although it just seems like a massive playdate for the kids when they are all here, which is where i think the lines are blurred - they think its just he kids playing together, but really we parents all know its more responsibility than that.

plus yes, my daughter was feeling unwell last night and this morning, and i just felt overwhelmed that i had to keep going for the sake of this other family, if you see what i mean

just wanted to help a friend, didnt want any stress!

Just say that you have had a rethink and need to stick to the one day only as originally planned - don't explain anything just leave it at that. Tell them ASAP so they can make other arrangements, do not leave it til the last minute or start doing it and then back out as it's not fair.

When I needed help I had 3 or 4 very good friends on standby in case my friend couldn't do it.

Just tell them that you have thought about it properly and you desalt can not commit to more than one day, you would hate to cancel at short notice and for them to be stuck long term, so you think it's best that they find more reliable help for the other days etc.

A "new" friend, you say? So you don't know much about her? I hate to say it, but she saw you coming, I suspect! She is massively taking advantage. What do you know about the kids? Is there some reason she won't (can't?!) use a childminder?

The reason I am asking this is that I have recently given notice to a child in similar circumstances - well, actually, not even given notice: terminated the contract with immediate effect. I was glad to get shot of the family after a number of incidents. They've already been through another childminder who also won't have them back.
This sounds a little familiar

I may be totally wrong, of course.

However, how to extract yourself:
You apologise and tell her you have looked into the legal side of it and realise you will be breaking the law. You do not want to put yourself in that position. Again, you're sorry. You'll stick to your original offer but can't do any more than that.

just say you mentioned it to someone who told you it was illegal as you are not registred and that you think 3 days is going to be too much. why are they not using the childminder?

They may well be desperate, but they have shifted the desperation quite neatly onto OP IMO. They don't sound like friends. Explain you were put on spot and said yes to extra but on discussing with your OH, you are both concerned about the huge amount of work, affect on your kids and the fact that family finances will be affected as you won't be able to take a p/t job. Add that you will stick to your original offer which was offered freely and from the bottom of your heart, but the extra they have now asked for is unfortunately not possible without badly affecting your family, so they will have to find another solution. I wouldn't want friends like this, infact!

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I would go with the (possibly false) assumption that they were going to pay all along, and then use that as your excuse why you can't do it at all,

i.e. "I've been looking again into the whole issue of me looking after your children. Obviously, I'd have to accept your offer of payment if I were to do it, as it's a long-term commitment which would in effect be a part-time job for me, but I've discovered it's actually illegal to do childminding unless you are registered, which I'm not. So I'm afraid I'm going to have to pull out. I'm happy to help you as a favour for a couple of weeks, as we discussed originally, but for your long-term childcare needs, I'm afraid you'll have to find a registered childminder"

Well first of All speaking as a cm I can tell you this is a massive commitment to make unpaid for a family member let alone a 'new friend'.

But you have the perfect get out, IT IS AGAINST THE LAW. You cannot look after other peoples children for payment unless you are a registered cm

Simply tell her you can't afford to do this without payment and i srnt goong to tegister ad s cm, that takes 6 months at least anyway, and if u dont tegister possibly another cm at school would report you to social services.

She is trying it on, she should get a child minder.

Back off now, man up and blame the law and your need to earn money.

I think YABU to offer and then ask for payment, you should also be aware that it would be illegal to be paid unless you are registered as a childminder and I assume that if this was the case then she would already be paying you. I also think this is huge favour and you should consider reviwing the situation after a week or so, I think you would perfectly within your rights to say that you were finding it too much and ask her to find alternative care

Again understand if she pays u it's u who are braking the law and you who could be prosecuted,

not being mean but as a cm I would report you for this. We work bloody hard to be registered, ofsteded, first aid and courses, PAY TAX and run businesses.

yes, tanith, i had wondered myself to be honest, what is going on

i think yes thank you fantastic solution, thankyou neeps, emphasis in the longterm it would work best to find a childminder - even though she tells me her kids dont want a childminder.

if it were myself, i would want to sort out my kids care properly, even if a friend had offered, as id want peace of mind i was doing it legally - i mean - finding legal forms of childcare. not sure why they dont just do this.

my gut instinct is just telling me to pull out now.

I'll do this week then tell them i can do one more week then its just 1 afternoon a week.

surely there must be someone else she an ask to do another afternoon if she really doesnt want to do childminding? apparently all have refused.

then i'll seek some assertiveness training!!!!!!

emphasise sorry for spellings this morning

yes, thebody, i understand your point absolutely

i havent actually started to do it, and will speak to them later today to sort it all out and change the arrangement as I understand that it's not something I want to get involved in.

YANBU OP. You said that no one else at school had offered to help out, but why would they. I don't expect the other mums at DS1's school to offer to help with pick up just because I can't do it. I employ a CM and so should your friend. What would she have done if you hadn't offered? I'd get out of it now. Before you know it you'll be looking after them at the weekends too.

Incidentally I have a friend who ended up unofficially doing wrap around care for another mother at school, just because the other mother was willing to take full advantage and my friend hated it, but didn't like to say no. The child would be dropped off at 7am, she would take him to school, collect him and then he would be collected again at 6pm. 5 days a week all for no payment.

I think it was lovely of you to make the original offer and you sound lovely but honestly her saying her kids don't want a cm makes me suspicious like tanith says.

I feel for you as think they are bloody cheeky, u can do this, tell them no and it's their problem not yours.

YWBU to ask for payment as it would be illegal, which has already been pointed out, although YWNBU to ask for expenses - food, petrol, excursion money etc.

I agree with everyone saying to pull out now. Don't feel guilty, it is not your problem that they haven't made adequate childcare arrangements for an event that they knew was going to happen in advance. "The children don't want another childminder." - And? That's tough luck.

YANBU - what a massive imposition. As above, use the excuse of the law as your get-out. To be honest, I would never have offered even one afternoon for longer than a couple of weeks, because I know what an incredible bind it can become over the long term. You are already getting a sense of that re when your DD was ill and you still have to take on the childcare for the other people's children. Also, what if you find the perfect part-time job and you can't take it because you've committed to that one afternoon?

If I were you, I'd speak to them straight away and tell them that a) you can't legally take on their childcare (pretending that they did actually offer money) and b) you can only do the one afternoon for a couple of/a few weeks, not for 7 months.

Just like the rest of us, they need to sort out their childcare properly, not dump their kids on a kind friend, without any sort of payment.