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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that 34 is too late to retrain to become a doctor

104 replies

RosesAreBlue · 16/04/2012 04:32

I have just had a 'discussion' with a friend of mine in which I told her that 34 is a bit too late to retrain to become a Paediatritian. She got a bit upset and told me I was being unsupportive but I was just trying to be honest and realistic. She has two young children...
I feel guilty now as I don't want to be unsupportive IABU?

OP posts:
YellowDinosaur · 16/04/2012 07:12

You can do a similar course in Newcastle nooka and I presume at other universities. But there are only very very limited places available.

If your friend is serious she needs to start looking into voluntary work / work experience now a this will help her be competitive.

Good luck to her if goes ahead but it will be very hard work! Snag much more than the 8 years mentioned by nooka - she wouldn't be able to plan to start until sept next year as a minimum (because of the need to get relevant voluntary work experience). Then 4 years study, 2 years foundation and 3 years minimum to be a gp or about 8 minimum to do paediatrics (assuming similar to my own speciality)

DaisySteiner · 16/04/2012 07:13

There are no fees here for university

Um, sadly there are.

Marrow · 16/04/2012 07:14

YABU. I have a friend who also has two young children who is about to do the same thing (wondering if we have the same friend!) I think it is amazing that she is going to do this. She recognises that it is going to be very tough but is very focused and determined. I fully intend to give her as much support as I can to help her achieve her dream. Good luck to your friend.

MedusaIsHavingABadHairDay · 16/04/2012 07:14

Has she actually looked into what it entails?
The competition for graduate medicine(if she has a first degree already) is incredibly fierce..worse that standard entry. She would need proof of recent study unless she did A levels in the last couple of years too. Then if she did get a place.. it's 5 years just to qualify then two foundation years working shifts in hospitals as a junior doctor. So seven years just to get that far.

I do't think you are being unsupportive.. I think you are being realistic and she isn't. Studying medicine is TOUGH and with two young children would be extremely difficult, even if there is a Med school local to her there will be placements, travel, long hours and the pressure of exams and work. My DD1 is a med student and has to work really hard and finds it knackering and she has only herself to look after!

In terms of actual age she isn't too old not at all.. but with two young kids she is not at a life stage which would make doing medicine easy.. and it would be a LONG road to becoming a Paediatrician!

crje · 16/04/2012 07:16

I would have thought the same as you but not said it.....Wink

Id admire the can do attitude and ambition in a person like your friend.

YellowDinosaur · 16/04/2012 07:17

Please excuse typos in last post! First 4 years (university) will not be paid either - the course linked to costs 9k a year.

Cross posted with Lydie - she is right that as student you get sent all over the place on your clinical placements. Plus applying for jobs is nationally organised so she may need to move her family more than once for this too.

Not impossible but she needs to know about all the hard side of it too to make a an informed decision as to whether or not it is for her.

DaisySteiner · 16/04/2012 07:23

If she does it as graduate entry then the course is only 4 years I think and last 3 are paid by NHS.

Kristina2 · 16/04/2012 07:24

I assume, daisy, that you mean there are fees where you live.

I said there are no fees here

The Op didnt say where she or her friend live, so you cant assume that she wouod have to pay fees

DaisySteiner · 16/04/2012 07:28

True. But for the majority of people in the UK, there are fees.

YellowDinosaur · 16/04/2012 07:30

Kristina have you been living in some parallel universe for the last few years? There are course fees for all university courses. And if you look at the link upthread you can see that for the accelerated 4 year course at this institution they are 9k a year. Which is probably pretty typical.

WillieWaggledagger · 16/04/2012 07:31

my mother taught medical students and had one who was in her mid-fifties (so really only about 10 years of practice max)

Alltheseboys · 16/04/2012 07:47

Just because it's something you couldn't do doesn't mean discourage her. The whole point of being a friend is to support. I'm sure she would be wary of your opinion in the future but hopefully she will still go ahead. The worst thing about life is looking back with regrets.

PanicMode · 16/04/2012 07:48

My brother trained as an accountant and then switched to medicine in his late 20s. He's now 37 and training to be a paed. surgeon - and it is REALLY tough. He isn't married and doesn't have children and he finds the hours and the rotas and the studying very difficult. That said, he's the happiest he's ever been!

I would have been cautiously supportive, but stressed the looooooooong road ahead for a friend who had asked me the same question. It'll be tough, but not impossible if she's determined - and has a VERY supportive partner.

wonkylegs · 16/04/2012 07:51

If she already has a degree she may find the fees are even higher as she is unlikely to receive any subsidy at all from the government - a dear friend decided to do architecture (my subject) following a degree in something else it's cost her parents a small fortune... And she's now decided it might not be for her after all hmm

Dozer · 16/04/2012 07:58

Yanbu to think those things, but you could've been more tactful.

Sounds like the main issues, even setting aside whether she will qualify for a course somewhere, are her husband and money. He would need to be actively supportive, reducing his hours, moving location etc, and they would need a lot of money, or be prepared to take on debt.

My mum studied an allied health profession in her early 30s when DC just started school, back then fees were free. 3 year course pllus qualifying year, placements fairly locally. She would put us to bed then study until late, and study over many weekends. She did v well, and had a good career afterwards, achieved a lot, worked with children etc, but she says it was the hardest few years of her life and nearly broke her marriage (for which she blames my father, who said he was supportive but didn't want to cook / clean the bathroom / have less attention).

RichManPoorManBeggarmanThief · 16/04/2012 08:00

The whole point of being a friend is to support

I disagree. The point of being a friend is to both support and challenge. Some of the best advice I have had from friends and mentors hasnt necessarily been what I want to hear, but iin retrospect they were right. If you only surround yourself with supporters you'll end up like Stalin (joke, but you know what I mean).

When you're contemplating a massive, life changing decision you need people who point out the pluses and minuses. All very well people saying "Oh yes. Go for it. Live the dream." it's not them doing it.

Glimmerberry · 16/04/2012 08:02

That's quite a commitment at 34. I would hope that she understands that there's a lot of stuff to get thru before actually doing any Paeds, and most importantly, in the UK at the moment there is no guarantee of getting a training place in the specialty of your choice (and no way of knowing that till you get to that stage). So she could do 4/5 years medical school (fulltime, theres no parttime option), 2 foundation years (longer if training "flexibly") and then not actually get onto Paeds training (6/7 years if fulltime, could be more). Getting onto a specific training rotation may mean accepting a job anywhere in the UK. If she couldn't get a paeds rotation in the UK she might have to weigh up going to NZ or Australia as many UK docs do in order to do their choice of specialty.

Anyone doing medicine these days needs to be aware it's a bit like joining the army. A certain level of behaviour is expected of you at all times, you will be expcted to uproute and move around as your training requires, you'll be expected to hit milestones (like professional exams) by a certain point or be streamed off elsewhere, the hours are often antisocial and the rewards come late. Oh, and unlike being in the army, you'll have to find your own accomodation, transport etc for all the moves you make. And then there's the Daily Mail...

Kristina2 · 16/04/2012 08:03

Yellow, I dont live in a paralle universe. I just dont live in your street, obviously. There IS life outside your village /suburb!

This isnt mumsnet local, people post here from all over the world. Eg fees in france are ?150, not a huge amount. Its free in RoI and in scotland ( to EU residents with reciprocal arrangmenets)

Let me repeat -since you have no idea where the person referred to in the op lives or where she wouod wish to study, you cannot know what the fees, if any, would be.

Reading many of these posts i feel i am in the 1950s. She cant study because she is too old and she is married with children!!! I cant imagaine most of these would be seen as insurmountabel obstacles for a man

Dozer · 16/04/2012 08:04

I disagree with those who say that a friend's role is always to be positive / "supportive". People can tell when friends are insincere.

I think a neutral, practical stance is useful in these kind of situations, eg just listen, say neutral things and nod, suggest ways to find out more information, things she might find it helpful to think about.

Also disagree that dreams should always be followed, especially when others will be affected. No point following a dream if it leads to bankruptcy, upset for whole family, failure. There needs to be a reasonable prospect of do-ability and success.

Rinkan · 16/04/2012 08:04

Kristina, are you in Scotland? Unless OP's friend is also resident there she'd still have to pay.

Dozer · 16/04/2012 08:06

Oh rubbish kristina, the OP more than likely lives in the UK. France is unlikely to be an option unless she and her DH have fluent french, and scotland does not have a reciprocal agreement with england.

Agree with you about the children / man, however.

Voidka · 16/04/2012 08:07

YABU to think she is too old.
YANBU to think it will be difficult for her.

BIWI · 16/04/2012 08:11

I think it's really sad to hear you articulate concerns based around your friend's role as a parent and a woman - how narrow and restrictive your view is. Whilst, of course, presumably you think her husband is free to do whatever he wants re his career and childcare.

At 34 your friend is young. If she's prepared to put the effort in, and she and her husband can sort out childcare arrangements that work for them, then I can't see the problem. So I think YABU.

Barklouder · 16/04/2012 08:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

gettingalifenow · 16/04/2012 08:14

Even in Soctland, I don't think there is funding for a second degree ( there's a clause in the funding model called 'equivalence'). In England she wouldn't get funding so would have to pay her own fees, as she already has a first degree - and for medicine the fess are £20k plus - not the £9k that you can borrow from the student loan company - which she wouldn't be able to borrow in any cae as she already has a degree!

Plus, her A levels have to be the right ones so she may need to back fill. And then she would be in competition with all the 18 and 19 test olds who have been working on gap year projects and work experience...

The mature students who do medicine are usually those who have been working in a health care related profession and for whom medicine is a logical next step - your friend might fall into that category but it doesn't sound like it - you're quite right to point out the pitfalls to her, so not BU at all, but being a sensible friend

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