Aibu to leave church because not child friendly

[Ginga66]

I go to the Birmingham oratory and was married there, ds baptized etc. Their 'family' mass is at noon but my son is not one for sitting quietly and is very active. There is no crying room, no baby change etc. There is a little courtyard where he was playing today until some attendant came out and told him to get off the gravel. I said they should provide somewhere he coukd play, he said control ur child, I said go away little man ANC he said ' the worst i can wish for u is that ur child grows up as I'll mannered as u'. At that point I was speechless. I had lots of retorts about how pathetic an example of Christianity he was bug did not want a slanging match as I am also seven months pregnant. This is not the first incident. Some one else told him off for just hiding behind a curtain. There was a sermon about sitting quietly etc etc. I am really fed up. I am catholic but it seems to je these celibate men have no idea how to accommodate families and I don't think their attitude is at all representative of jesus. I can't Stand the intolerance ANC I am tired of how old fashioned they are, I mean not even a chsnginroom. I don't know of a catholic church with a crying room in brum where he cld play so I think I will have to stop going altogether. Any thoughts?

I've taken my DCs from baby to toddler to primary and teenage now. At some point they have all been noisy, but we just persisted. Over 15 years of mass going with them I can remember a couple of old biddies tutting, more smiling and clucking and trying to distract them, and several sermons from the priests about children distracting- each and every time the message was loudly and strongly that the children and the parents have as much right to be there as anyone else; if a member of the congregation finds children distracting they should go to a different service or suck it up. With that in mind OP, you should continue to go. Your DS will get used to it and become better behaved. Change chuches if you must, but remember you have as much right to be there as anyone else.

I have taken 5 kids to church, starting with DS1 22 years ago. I continue to take 3, although they are all older now (youngest is 9). 3 of them have AS with all the associated issues. None of them have ever run about/caused a disruption during service because they have learned from a very young age that there is a kind of behaviour that is appropriate in church.

Babies cry during a service, sometimes, that's the way it is. As a parent there is a responsibility to manage that, either by nursing of by popping out to the vestibule or whatever. Toddlers wander and sometimes shout out. Again, it's a parent's job to manage that in a kind but firm way. Also a wandering toddler, who isn't causing too much disruption, or a crying baby should be a joy to a congregation. But there is a limit.

OP, you were very rude. People go to church to worship, pray and contemplate, even during a family service. If you and your child can't handle it, perhaps you should find ways to address this.

As for things like crying rooms, churches don't have those. Children are part of the family of God, not burdens to be shunted off somewhere else. The church that I am in now is the first one that I have belonged to that has crèche facilities, never mind anything else. (I have been a helper there since the kids were all old enough for Sunday School). It's not so long ago that churches didn't even have toilets, never mind all these baby facilities.

Perhaps I have been lucky but, in my experience, churches are glad to have children of any age come along because it is a sign of life in their congregations. And most people are very tolerant of a little bit of childish behaviour but, as I said, there is a limit and it is a parent's job to make sure that their child doesn't cross it.

"After all, he's only in church for your benefit2

I don't agree. Personally I take my DC to church for their benefit, as much as mine.

I think many priests are incredibly intolerant of small children. I remember my devout Mother being told off and made to cry for allowing her 6 month old twins to make a noise in church. That was what started me off on my long road to atheism. If the church wants to keep it's congregation, it really should have a family mass where small children and babies are welcome rather than seen as a nuisance.

sue52 that would be a really unusual thing to happen now. Anyone complaining about toddler noise is any of the RC churches I've attended would be given very short shrift by the priest and probably be the subject of next week's sermon!

Certainly if a priest spoke to a mother like that and she went higher (diocesan) the priest would get a bollocking and be sent on a welcoming and diversity course.

Sue, how recent and wide ranging is your experience?

If you had posted - some priests were incredibly intolerant- I'd agree, but yours is rather a sweeping statement.

My experience of many churches in the last 18 years is that the priests are friendly, helpful and welcoming. The odd member of the church has not been, but they they are odd :)

In our local church in the Easter holiday club the priest was put in a gunge tank and covered in gunge. Hardly intolerant!

I'd look for another church. I'm RC and the church I take DD to is great - there are always other toddlers around when DD goes, there's space outside where they can run around if they need to. I do however always take books and raisins as I think learning how to sit still is no bad thing... (one of these days).
Not a big fan of crying rooms TBH - we have a large porch where we can take babies in meltdown, but in general people sit with their kids in church for most of the service.
Incidentally OP, what is ANC? I would have thought a polite 'could you suggest somewhere I can take my son, if not on the gravel?' would be more appropriate than 'go away, little man'

Hebiegebies That was over 40 years ago and I've never forgotten how upset and ashamed my mother was made to feel. If things have improved then that's great but the OP's experience shows that there is still room for more improvement.

OP's experience was of an attendant reacting badly to being a called a 'little man' , hardly a damning indictment of the Church's tolerance of children.

"I don't think Jesus would have cared about kids running around church, in fact nowhere in the bible does Jesus actually say build a church!"

I'm sure Jesus wouldn't. But the church service is for the benefit of the non-divine congregation and they are normal human beings. And whilst most people are prepared to be tolerant and accepting to a greater or lesser extent, there will come a time when even the most tolerant will have had enough of noise and disruption. When mine were little and I attended church (rarely admittedly) I used every distraction I could (chocolate, books, toys, pencil and paper) to keep them quiet. It never worked 100% - they would still chatter and wander up and down the pew, but it stopped them being totally distracting. And if they started to cry or be really loud, I'd take them out. It was never much fun - in fact I found it stressful - but that was what it took.

This is not just confined to Catholic church. The church I was bought up in, married in and had children Baptised in was fine until
a) We got a new minister (he and wife were childless, thay said, by choice)
b) There were less and less younger people there.
My 2 dc were 4 when we finally left due to the glares and comments made to us about their behaviour- they were not running up and down the aisle or anything like that, but playing with toys we had bought to keep them occupied, brum brum'ing with cars etc,giggling a bit, and occasionally asking questions.
We found a much more "child friendly" church, and have been attending ever since. So my advice is - Don't give up your Faith, find a different Church!

If your child is 'too energetic' to not cause a disruption at services then maybe you shouldn't take him until he is old enough not to? OR start trying to get him to sit for a while/not be disruptive so he does learn how to behave in such situations.
I do get a bit tired of people complaining about the attitudes of others being child unfriendly because they object to disruptive behaviour.

theres no reason why a church cant have a small area for the kids. haqve you looked at other churches?

didn't Jesus say something like let all the little children come unto me ?

Go away little man!!!

Bloody hell

Respect is a two way thing, the older you are the more important it is to model it for the younger people.

Sue I understand your mothers hurt, and yours, I know not all priests are perfect and that church goers are not either, if you reread my post you will see I said as much. I am sorry that she had to go through this. Perhaps time to forgive and move on?

Im RC and certainly dont have to attend mass every week QS, even my father is realistic and recognises that it isn't possible to attend religiously every week, and I dont know many fathers who do, and that's my English and Scottish churches.

As for child friendly, you do get some very old school fathers, where "children should be seen and not heard" however in my experience they are few and far between, the facilities are a different matter, some churches do and some dont, however if you knew you were going to a place where facilities aren't available then take disposable changing mats.

My service is 1 hour long, my sons service is 30 mins long (CofE).

Umm not catholic here but fairly "high" anglican and local to you.

The oratory is pretty "high" catholic I understand so smells and bells and silent reverence, and high quality choral music would be the order of the day, I'm afraid. I guess this suits some worshippers and not others- with small children it clearly doesn't feel you are at "home" there as you should be.

If you don't mind a "lower" atmosphere then I'm sure there are lots of catholic churches that would welcome you all with open arms. THey jolly well should because children are the future of the church- not celibate priests IYSWIM!

Try a few churches esp with schools attached (if you want a catholic schooling for your children, but also an attached school means by default "family mass" is really that!) . You could try St Marys Harborne or the little church that escapes me at the corner of the Hagley road and Balden road in harborne (could be our lady of fatima?).

I find it very odd in a church that favours procreation and large families that "children aren't expected to attend mass until they are 7" . One could surmise that this is religious oppression of women by the back door- a large family will have lots of years when Mum is home with small kids and not worshipping herself?

I'd say find a more child friendly church. (Saying go away little man wasn't very nice though.)

I'm RC and attend a little chapel attached to an old peoples home in the village. My two are 2.6 and 15mths, but I leave little one at home with my DH who is not religious.

I often take DD1 out of Mass to run about and let off steam outside if she can't sit still starts shouting.

However the priests are lovely and appreciate how hard it is to even get there with kids- both have children and became priests after their wives died. Sometimes when there are more families with children (usually just me with DD1) the priests make a point of thanking them for being there and remind the rest of the congregation that children are our and the church's future.

Everyone else coo's/smiles/plays with DD which is nice and there are a lot of Indian nuns who attend and she often sits at the back with them whilst they feed her chocolate to keep her quiet .

I've never been to a church with changing facilities and have never heard of a crying room.

"Plenty of people who don't have children...even 'these celibate men' will be able to spot a badly behaved child and a parent unable to cope."

Surely in a church a parent unable to cope might expect a bit of help and compassion? It isn't actually a sin to be having problems coping,is it?
(not suggesting you weren't coping,OP)
Yes,I think OP was rude,but if she had taken her DC out of the service and he was playing quietly on the gravel,I can't see why he shouldn't have been allowed to carry on.If he was running up and down on the gravel shrieking,obviously he should have been stopped!
The thing that struck me was that the issue seems not to have been what he was doing,but where he was doing it.
Disrupting other worshippers - not on - but disturbing a bit of gravel - well,is it that big a deal?

My church (C of E) is very tolerant of DS (20 months) running around but I tend to take him out during the sermon and intercessions anyway. We have a creche at the back of church which has a speaker so you can hear the service. Our new vicar has five kids himself (including three-year-old twins) so knows what to expect!