Aibu to leave church because not child friendly

[Ginga66]

I go to the Birmingham oratory and was married there, ds baptized etc. Their 'family' mass is at noon but my son is not one for sitting quietly and is very active. There is no crying room, no baby change etc. There is a little courtyard where he was playing today until some attendant came out and told him to get off the gravel. I said they should provide somewhere he coukd play, he said control ur child, I said go away little man ANC he said ' the worst i can wish for u is that ur child grows up as I'll mannered as u'. At that point I was speechless. I had lots of retorts about how pathetic an example of Christianity he was bug did not want a slanging match as I am also seven months pregnant. This is not the first incident. Some one else told him off for just hiding behind a curtain. There was a sermon about sitting quietly etc etc. I am really fed up. I am catholic but it seems to je these celibate men have no idea how to accommodate families and I don't think their attitude is at all representative of jesus. I can't Stand the intolerance ANC I am tired of how old fashioned they are, I mean not even a chsnginroom. I don't know of a catholic church with a crying room in brum where he cld play so I think I will have to stop going altogether. Any thoughts?

...and pregnancy is no excuse for bad behaviour!!!

Part of being a christian is forgiveness. We are all sinners. Yes, the OP was wrong to insult the man who critised her parenting. I think the OP needs to make an apology to the gentleman in question.

Matthew 19:14
Jesus said, ?Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.?

Children will be children and Jesus knew this. Toddlers are noisy and can't sit still. I am sure that 2000 years ago that tots misbehaved in the temple as much as any modern church.

I would ask these smug posters who teach their children to sit quietly whether their children still attend church. Are they still believers with an active personal relationship with Jesus when they are adults? Or are their only memories of going to church is being told off and punished for wriggling more than a muscle.
I have changed church recently and I have been told not to worry about dd running about. DD is getting better about staying in the pew. We find plenty of toys and choosing a pew with one exit is the secret. Also making sure she gets a good view of the service.

It is horrible been told off about the behaviour of your children. However one person in a congretation is not an entire church. I don't how the catholic church works. Do you have church wardens that you could speak to?

Find another church.

People saying teach them to sit quietly is OK from about 3 but not before then. Expecting a 1yo or 2yo to sit quietly for an hour+ is expecting a bit much.

Oh having said that I think you were rude to the chap.

All in all not a good fit. Find somewhere that is.

1. What difference does being pregnant make?
2. You were rude
3. I have never known a church with a changing area

But, the church needs to offer at least one child friendly service a week.

Matthew 19:14
Jesus said, ?Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.?

Yes, yes of course God loves the little people as much as anyone....and yes they are very dear...BUT....children are quite capable of sitting in church without being totally disruptive. Some parents take in books/games...to occupy little ones..and some little ones just seem to enjoy the atmosphere and find little friends to sit with....from my own observations.

Surely most people go to church to worship/praise god/learn something etc and they want their children to learn about the church....in which case they should try to keep the child in that environment. If they want them to play around...then why go to church?

Most churches I have been to have had quiet areas for parents where the sermon is relayed...so that parents don't miss out (in which case, parents would still need to try and keep the children quiet/occupied so that others could benefit from the service.

If the OP is not happy with her church....then she's free to go elsewhere.

I don't understand how 1yo and 2yo can be expected to sit quietly for this length of time. Sure some can but to expect it as a general rule is simply unrealistic.

Let's not exaggerate here!

I don't think anyone expects a 1 and 2 year old to sit in complete total silence during the length of a whole service....many adults don't!

But there's a huge difference in the occasional noise/cry/whimper and a child who is habitually disruptive!

hebiegebies I totally agree on both counts. I bf my ds in a packed cathedral during my dh's ordination

But not every woman is comfortable with bf in church.

Some children are more active than others. I am a sinner and have failed to "control" my both my children as toddlers in church. DD is still learning how to sit quiet at the age of three. Where as ds is fanastic in church at the age of ten. The chaos stage does not last long. Children need to be taken to church to develop a relationship with Jesus. Ideally pick a church with a family service. Ie. the miserable sods who don't like children can go the 8am service and the active tots can attend the 10am service.

I went to church today with a friends just 2 yo and 3.5yo and the 2yo kept saying all sorts of things quite loudly. That's what they do, isn't it?

Had to giggle at the child singing Happy Birthday when she saw the candles

I once had to take DS out of Communion when he was a toddler, wailing loudly about "I want some bun, too, Mummy!"
A lovely lady found him a strawberry biscuit instead and the usher apologised afterwards, saying he was sure Jesus wouldn't have minded, if only he himself had realised in time.

There are lots of family friendly churches around, so do keep looking.

Our RC church is great for kids, the priest does not bat an eyelid if they wander about/make a noise. There is children's liturgy which goes on during the Gospel (which is the hardest bit for them to sit through) and they come back in just in time for the Lord's Prayer, when they are invited to the altar to sing it with the priest, they often hold hands with the child next to them and it is really sweet to watch. Our church is so popular with families, it is absolutely packed for the family Mass on Sunday. I would change your church , word of a child friendly church gets around fairly quickly so try asking around.

I can't imagine the trouble I'd have been in if I'd done anything in mass that people felt they had to mention to my parents.

OP, you were extremely rude to that man and you owe him an apology.

I suggest you do find another church, one with sweeties and toys and running around, or accept that if you want to take your son to mass, you're going to have to teach him how to behave without causing an unacceptable level of disturbance for others, who don't understand that he's the second coming.

I think you are being unreasonable, and quite rude. I know the Oratory and its a very very old church and very traditional. It doesn't surprise me that they don't have a 'crying room' (sorry, i don't even know what one of those are), and surely you would know this if you got married there. There are lots more 'child friendly' catholic churches around brum, St marys in harborne being one of them.

Geez... Thanks for replies. I know I was rude to him but he was virtually apoplectic with rage and started at me first. The control ur child comment came be fire my little man one ok!
I am really going along the lines of suffer the little children here.
He treatedcme with anger and disrespect so I gave it back I suppose.
ANC was a typo sorry.
I think it's the attitude of intolerance and I don't agree with people saying he should sit still. He is far too energetic and he is not the only child. It is the family mass. There are three other services on a Sunday people could attend for peace and quiet.
And I don't think people who have never had children have an inkling what it's like to control them. I had no idea before mine so there is a point to be MADD there.
I cant help react if someone is virtually yelling at my son and I.
I think I could have said a lot worse tbh.
Iwill look for another church but I am really bothered by the so called Christian attitude and the actual faith. I don't see how one can be Christian and cling to all the trappings and miss the message. I don't think Jesus would have cared about kids running around church, in fact nowhere in the bible does Jesus actually say build a church!

Quiet at Mass = chocolate, the way generations of my family have been brought up

@wigglesrock. We used to get our "Sunday 10p" if we were good at Mass.

My ds (now 11) and I were at Mass one Sunday shortly after his 4th birthday. When the collection plate came around (at a particularly quiet time of course), he said at the top of his voice "Are we playing Pass the Parcel?" There were lots of chuckles around us.

Mass is boring for kids and it's hard for them to make it through but I kind of think it's good for them to have to cope with being "bored" for 45 mins every week. They're so used to being entertained every minute of the day that they've lost the ability to daydream. I know it's impossible for toddlers to sit still for the full mass but they do get better bit by bit.

(Have stopped going to Mass as a protest because of the appalling way the church hierarchy dealt with child sex abuse in the Irish church.)

Jesus might not have cared but the other worshippers probably do.

But he told you to control your child....and he was right surely?

Little children have to suffer their parent's religion being foisted upon them and if you feel your child can't handle that yet, perhaps you should wait until he can?

After all, he's only in church for your benefit...it's not his choice is it?

Plenty of people who don't have children...even 'these celibate men' will be able to spot a badly behaved child and a parent unable to cope.

'Christian attitude's' don't mean 'please come and do exactly as you please and you won't get pulled up for it'

If Jesus didn't say 'build a church' then why are you dragging your child to one when it's clearly not where he wants to be at this stage in his life?

There are two types of parenting in this respect.

It is the type where parent is engaging the child, brings some books along, and teaches child to sit still during mass.

Or the one who thinks mass is playgroup, and is walking after wayward child exploring here there and everywhere.

Crying room? Baby facilities?

Mass in an hour, surely you can change your baby before you go? Or feed baby before? I dont understand the need for facilities.

But the most important aspect:

Can you bring a buggy in?

But you were rude to the man. He was trying to do the job you were failing to do.

You say you "can't help but react" and "could have said a lot worse".

No wonder your child is without discipline: you appear not to have any yourself.

I think it is unreasonable to expect a three or even four year old to sit quietly for that length of time, even with something to entertain them. For that matter, our kindergarten class of kids at 5 still had wiggly bottoms (although they were a lot better than the preschool kids) if asked to sit for too long without anything to do except listen. Ten, twenty even thirty minutes if something interesting like a story about Thomas the Tank is being read, but an hour for a three year old in a regular church service? I'd seriously find somewhere else.

I'm atheist, but was brought up anglican. Our 'family' church (not every week) had services with props like loaves or big fake golden coins or whatever else illustrated the semon. Lots of stand up, sit down, sing something and questions to the congregation that the kids could answer and all sorts of things that made it much less awful-boring than usual. If we could sit still without our parents we got to sit in the first pew. IIWY I'd try and find something like that.

However, getting in a slanging match? FFS. And what on earth does being 7months pg have to do with it?

Babies are going to cry during the service, that's just how it is.
It is courteous to take them out.
Many RC churches have an area which is closed off but where the mass can still be just about heard from.
It is better than standing outside especially in winter or if it is raining.
Not sure why there is anything wrong with having somewhere dry people can take their babies

If you are RC you cannot just stop going to mass until your child is old enough to be quiet.

You are supposed to go every week without fail unless you have a bloody good reason not to.

Hence when I was young, churchgoers had a bit of tolerance for babies and young children making some noise / getting fractious etc. It was to be expected.

OP I really think you should find another church.