Aibu to leave church because not child friendly

[Ginga66]

I go to the Birmingham oratory and was married there, ds baptized etc. Their 'family' mass is at noon but my son is not one for sitting quietly and is very active. There is no crying room, no baby change etc. There is a little courtyard where he was playing today until some attendant came out and told him to get off the gravel. I said they should provide somewhere he coukd play, he said control ur child, I said go away little man ANC he said ' the worst i can wish for u is that ur child grows up as I'll mannered as u'. At that point I was speechless. I had lots of retorts about how pathetic an example of Christianity he was bug did not want a slanging match as I am also seven months pregnant. This is not the first incident. Some one else told him off for just hiding behind a curtain. There was a sermon about sitting quietly etc etc. I am really fed up. I am catholic but it seems to je these celibate men have no idea how to accommodate families and I don't think their attitude is at all representative of jesus. I can't Stand the intolerance ANC I am tired of how old fashioned they are, I mean not even a chsnginroom. I don't know of a catholic church with a crying room in brum where he cld play so I think I will have to stop going altogether. Any thoughts?

And I'm 40, and there have been creches for babies and toddlers during church services in all the churches I've ever been to for as long as I've been alive. Those of you shocked at tge idea clearly don't go near churches on normal Sundays much.

Though calling the creche a crying room is a bit

There was a thread in the philosophy and spirituality section a while ago with lots of ideas about how to keep little ones quiet in church. I read it a few months ago and picked up a few tips. If I was able to do links I'd do one for you but it should be pretty easy to find. There are also a few of us on the chat threads in that section that have small children who are pretty lively in church. While some four year olds may be able to sit like little angels for over an hour there are others who find it a real challenge. Feel free to come and join us in the chat / prayer threads.

You called him a little man? Sorry but that was not on. And very rude. Not to mention losing you any moral high ground you might otherwise have had.

I do sympathise with keeping children quiet in church but at some point they have to learn that not everywhere is a playground, and that different places require different behaviour.

What, though, is a crying room? Isn't that what the car park / foyer / porch is for?

I am surprised at the Oratory as all of mine have been and they coped well. Our local services get a bit noisy on a sunday as all the kids sit together and the Priest just talks louder so he can be heard over them.We have a sunday school which runs during readings and the Gospel and most of the kids go to it.

It may be different as our Priest is married and his three were the noisiest ones usually.

You were rude to call him "little man" but perhaps you should be given the benefit of the doubt, considering you are pregnant. but you should definitely apologise next time you see him.

Can you become more involved in the church, and help to organise a crèche? At the church we attended as children, there was a crèche, in one of the indoor porches. There was a roster, so that parents could take it in turns to leave their DCs there, and not have to miss a service more than once every few months. In these days of CRB checks, this would be more difficult, but not, I think, insurmountable.

If you are a member of this church, surely you don't need to sit around waiting for someone else to improve it for you?

I'm a vicar's wife and I consider that children are an integral part of the community, that Jesus was particularly fond of them when he walked the earth and no doubt still is and that there should be space in church for them. Those who expect children to sit nice and be quiet seem happy to raise children who hate church and can't wait to get out of it later.

Yes to a room you can flee into with a tantrumming tot, breastfeed or change a bottom in. Yes for allowing exploration of the building and flexibility from adults. But also yes to a level of disruption and noise from children. FFS be grateful you have children in your congregation, they are the future of your church.

Or as my dh says 'Don't walk out, I'm in charge of the mike and it can go muuuch louder than this .

"FFS be grateful you have children in your congregation, they are the future of your church."

FFS? And you a vicar's wife too, madmouse!

I do think churches should cater for young children, as surely a large portion of their congregation is young families. I was brought up Catholic (now an Atheist) in our church they had what was called "the Little Church" for all the kids. We would go at the start of mass into a back room with a bible teacher, where we would have bible stories read to us, and then we had a question answer session about the story and then we did some colouring in. I loved it! It was so much better than having to sit through the whole of mass (which I found so boring). This was way back in the 80s, so surely churches have done even more to cater for children by now?

I didn't say I was a good vicar's wife did I? I'm rubbish with flowers too

I'm astonished at how rude you were :(

I've got 4 dc, and managed the early years without 'modern facilities' (as have people for hundreds of years) and also managed it without being rude to anybody, and I teach my children to be quiet in church. I have been to some churches where some parents think it's ok to let their kids run around and make loads of noise. I spent one mass with some parents with a toddler behind us with a musical book, and the parents repeatedly pressing the button. I can't say I was feeling very spiritual by the end of that mass

Just out of interest, why do you go to church? Why do you take your ds to church? Is there anyone you can leave ds with? DOn't you have a regular parish? Are you not involved in the church? (all genuine questions)

In terms of creches in church, when I was a Girl Guide we suggested setting one up to our priest and were told in no uncertain terms that children needed to attend mass, not go and do colouring in!

our church has 2 children#s groups - 1 for under First Holy Communion age, and the other for under Confirmation age. They go out and have the gospel reading in age appropriate versions with activity, then come back in at the end of the Homily, roughly half way through. Works well and means they are there for the important bit.

Madmouse, agree with your post bar 2 things

The children are the church of today too, their kids are the church of tomorrow

Breastmilk is best served in church, you shouldn't need to go to 'the crying room'

So you said "go away little man", and yet you think he is being unreasonable! I think his response was very controlled.

Just how Christian was your initial nastiness?

...sorry, I am not a practising Christian, so maybe I should not have replied.

I still think the OP was incredibley rude.

Isn't it ironic that I am being lambasted for not saying something to the parents of a badly behaved boy in church. But others here are saying that it was terrible of someone to tell your child/you off for your child's behaviour in church!

BTW OP I don't think what your son has done is anything like what the boy at my church did this morning! My children have done the things you have made reference to and it is deemed acceptable in my church - including climbing the grave stones outside church - which I don't like actually so do prevent my children.

Strong believer of "suffer the little children" generally, adn believe services should be child friendly, but being specific to the OP, it's quite a typical attitude that people have these days - they can be as cheeky and sarky as they like to those working on behalf of authorities, but if they get anything other than a grovelling apology, they're apoplectic with rage over the response.

told off for playing behind a curtain, or being rough with it and the person worrying your ds was going to pull it down? Or was he shrieking behind the curtain, cos I don't believe if he was merely hiding quietly behind a curtain anybody would have felt moved to say anything.

Like I said, I have 4 kids, 2 have ADHD, 1 ADD, so I know what wild boys can be like, but I do insist, or at least strive my best to ensure they behave well and quietly in church. My eldest is about to turn 13, and in nearly 13 years of taking 1, then 2, then 3, then 4 lively children on my own to mass, in all then time I have never once been told off, or had my kids told off in mass. Not once.

I say this in all honesty to politely suggest that is you have had a few altercations, maybe you need to consider that you need to do something differently.

By the way, have you offered at any point to help out with a creche or kids room? This is a service you would like. SOmeone has to provide it. Just saying.

I take mine (6,4 and 1 year) to mass in our chapel. I'm in NI and mass is 40 mins top (shorter in the Summer).

We have a crying chapel but its generally carnage in there on a Sunday morning so I just sit at the front in the chapel - so the children can see everything We have a childrens liturgy during one of the masses but its for primary school age children.

When the baby was noisy I stood at the back at jigged her about, but to be honest one of the people I've been sitting beside/ infront of have usually pulled a few funny faces, dug out some jelly babies or made a fan out of the bulletin. The older two sit quietly enough but they are aware that if they play about too much they'll be no sweets. Quiet at Mass = chocolate, the way generations of my family have been brought up

Bugger me you were really rude

I have no idea what the answer is TBH, I am not a beleiver. But I was taken to church from an early age and I don't remember anyone making allowances or special arrangments for children. It seemed to work OK

BTW what on earth did you expect as a response to 'go away little man'? I think his response was quite restrained.

OP I sympathise. I take three kids to our local CofE church every Sunday. There's a nice children's corner with toys and books, but I can't get my 4 and 6 year old to play or read silently, and the 18mo is usually quiet, but a bit of a wanderer. She really likes wandering up to the communion rail and will just stand there or sit there quietly, so I leave her to it rather than grab her back and trigger a tantrum.

The church is reasonably tolerent but recently I think the microphone and speaker system has been turned down because some people have complained about the noise from the children's area. There was one woman really upset, apparently, a few weeks ago, and it made me feel so bad that I took the kids out of the Good Friday service 5 minutes in as I didn't want their noise to spoil things for others.

I'm thinking of looking at other churches with better provision for kids. It's horrible to be told that your children's actions have left someone in tears. Yes, I should wave a magic wand and be a better parent so that they sit in compliant silence listening to the service and following it in the booklet, but I find it very hard to keep 3 of them under control at once. DS2 in particular can play up spectacularly. Unfortunately, if I stop taking them to church, I have to stop going myself as DH can't look after all three of them by himself.

Got sidetracked here - I hope you find a church which welcomes you and your children, OP.

Yanbu, I'd definitely leave the church if I was spoken to like that. I'd also make sure it was known why I had left

OP have I missed how old your son is? I do think any mass is difficult for an under 3 to sit through (ours are difficult for me to sit through!) - and our services used to last for up to an hour and a half until we got a new priest was a bit brisker (thank the Lord). I do know to avoid the Palm Sunday service . We now have a Sunday School but when we didn't I was constantly leaping up to take my DS outside for a little walk. It does sound as if you were treated unfairly. Get off the gravel? How weird.

I think you may have to find a new church. You were a bit rude to the man but to be honest, if you'd been fielding a toddler for ages and are 7mo preg and were hoping for a friendly smile and instead got told off, I think it's understandable.

Any thoughts??? Any thoughts???!!! LOL

Yes....sure

Firstly, who are you to complain about the attitude of others when you told that guy "go away little man"!

What sort of example is that?

While many churches provide children's rooms....I'm not sure they are obliged to...and tbh you should be able to keep you child quietishg/occupied during the service so that he isn't a nuisance to others.

Just a little discipline will do....err and setting an example!

If you don't like the church and it's rules....then of course you are free to go elsewhere....or not at all.

You were very rude in the way you spoke to the man-very rude indeed. It is a church, not a kids entertainment venue.

Get a grip and apologise to the man; move on from there.