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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to be proud of being a white english muslim?

302 replies

MoveBiatchGetOutTheWay · 11/04/2012 23:24

Yes it sounds weird. Point is, some people (muslim and non muslim) are of the opinion you cannot possibly identify as this, but I love our culture and Im enjoying passing it down to my ds (in the form of afternoon tea and gentlemanly manners ;) )

I love my religion, and boy do I love my culture :)

OP posts:

bobbledunk · 12/04/2012 01:23

I really don't care what religion people are as long as they don't try to inflict it on me but I don't see anything to be proud of in believing in such nonsense.

Pride should come from what good you do, not the identity boxes you tick.

HalfPastWine · 12/04/2012 01:27

Yes thecook - the OP is muslim so therefore MUST speak Urdu. She wouldn't be a bonefide Muslim if she didn't.

mathanxiety · 12/04/2012 03:12

Is this about burquas?

mathanxiety · 12/04/2012 03:15

White wedding dresses have no historical association with Christianity. The tradition began (like the Christmas tree and Christmas cards) with Queen Victoria.

AGunInMyPetticoat · 12/04/2012 04:58

I've never really understood the whole pride in one's culture thing, to be honest.

As far as I'm concerned, pride is inherently linked to some kind of an accomplishment - and since nationality, culture, class, etc. are essentially an accident of birth it just doesn't really qualify in my mind.

This is not to say, of course, that I don't appreciate parts of my culture or that I wouldn't feel offended if somebody said something really derogatory about it - it's just that to me this is more about identity than pride.

theodorakis · 12/04/2012 06:15

I am not Muslim but I love living in a liberal Islamic society (Qatar) and cannot imagine a different life now. I guess we are similar opposites OP!

theodorakis · 12/04/2012 06:17

But can I ask does anyone else think this thread is a bit weird/passive aggressive? OP I am sure you are proud and happy but not quite sure what AIBU can do to join in your happiness.

theodorakis · 12/04/2012 06:30

I respect that you want to be feisty and independent but surely the nature of Islam DOES tell you what to to, especially as a woman. Surely you can only pray with other women and have to moderate your interactions outside of the family home. I love and respect Islam as a way of life and as a way for us all to live but I also have to accept the downsides as well living here such as husbands not being allowed in the delivery room.

gorionine · 12/04/2012 06:36

"anyway, I want to say to people who think I shouldnt be proud to be english, that I am and that I dont have to suddenly adapt to asian/arab/somali culture just because I am muslim and those cultures are around me a lot in my area. Hard to explain but there you go "

Not sure I understand either. Is it the Asian/Arabs/Somalis you meet at the mosque for example who tell you you should not be proud to be British? Or white British people telling you you are not one of them if Muslim?

I converted to Islam 15 years ago (am White European originally, not British) and have never experienced being told by Muslims from Asian or African origin) that I should not be proud of my culture. I have been shown (never told face to face) that I somehow have "betrayed" my culture by changing religion. To me though one has strictly nothing to do with the other and it is IMHO actually quite dangerous to assimilate both especially as a lot of "bad press" Muslims get is down to cultural rather than religious issues. As well, as much as I enjoy spicy food but that will never make me Pakistani but practicing my religion makes me a Muslim.

My DCs are British and born Muslim as I suspect quite a lot of people are and I see no reason why they should not be proud to be both.

gorionine · 12/04/2012 06:38

Sorry, missed a bit, Should read "I have been shown by my own country's people that I somehow have betrayed my culture by changing religion"

greenbananas · 12/04/2012 07:12

We all pick and choose from the cultures around us. Tea and scones should offend nobody but some aspects of English culture are incompatible with most faiths (gambling, getting drunk on a Saturday night).

...people feel they have to pretend to be asian or arab when they become muslim... but normally they grow out of that and calm down a bit...

Yes, I have seen this happening. I live in an area where there are many Muslims from one particular culture, and some converts do seem to feel that they must adopt local cultural traditions as part of their new faith.

If they have married into a Muslim family, there is sometimes pressure from their new families to conform in all sorts of details which are entirely cultural and nothing to do with religion.

OP, if you are balancing all this successfully, then I do think you have a right to be proud

Jinsei · 12/04/2012 07:20

remember it is not about one culture dominating the other but bringing two cultures together, so meet them half way.

yy, I agree with this entirely. I am not a Muslim, nor am I married to one, but DH and I certainly follow this model with our own marriage across cultures.

And OP, if it's about a wedding, why not just mix it up. We did, and everyone loved it! :)

ErikNorseman · 12/04/2012 07:29

YANBU
I'm a non Muslim married to a Muslim and I am prou d that we have a multi cultural house and family! I love some aspects of DH's culture and reject others, as he does. We find a happy blend, I like it and I'm proud of it. I get what the op is sating.

SydSaid · 12/04/2012 07:48

I don't get the whole 'proud to be English/Scottish/Israeli/Madagascan thing. Surely your nationality is just an 'accident of birth' and not something chosen. I personally feel that if people get too caught up in national pride it causes divisions and is the root of racism.

I feel very fortunate to have been born and brought up where I was and there is a huge amount of positives, but I didn't create it so I don't see that it's something for me to be proud of.

Please note though, I am not saying that people that claim pride for their country are racist, but that many racists have taken that pride, that nationalism, too far.

LittleEsmeWeatherwax · 12/04/2012 07:50

OP, I find this post really interesting. Can I ask you (and the other relevant posters) why you converted to Islam? Were you guided by a relationship? Marriage? Or have you pursued it independently?

I'm genuinely interested. Although I do realise that my questions read a bit 'challenging'. Their not meant that way.

I think it's because I live in a very, very rural area, high number of elderly people in the population and admittedly, very insular in ideals.

LittleEsmeWeatherwax · 12/04/2012 07:51

They're not meant that way.

Whatmeworry · 12/04/2012 07:52

Meh - I think Cat Stevens did all this awhile back. Muslim, not Muslim, British, not British, Afternoon tea, not afternoon tea, do what you will.

Btw most Muslim cultures make great coffee and cakes :)

seeker · 12/04/2012 07:58

Don't understand "proud" in this context.

samandi · 12/04/2012 08:44

Personally I don't think believing in imaginary beings is anything much to be proud of, but hey ho. Being proud of having good manners is another thing.

Whatmeworry · 12/04/2012 08:56

I once read that each religion's idea of it's heaven is very culturally dependent, so maybe the British Heaven needs to have tea and scones, not virgins and flowing wine :o

Jinsei · 12/04/2012 09:00

Can I have wine with scones, please? Not interested in tea or virgins.

Jinsei · 12/04/2012 09:01

Oh, and jam and cream with the scones, please.

Tw1gl3t · 12/04/2012 10:00

Presumably we should all be proud of what and who we are.
If we're not we should take steps to change ourselves.

Note the difference between pride and shame here: If you have to change others to feel good about yourself then it's about them and not you. You can still be proud of yourself.

seeker · 12/04/2012 10:11

Not sure what "proud" means then. I think pride should be reserved for achievements and I don't consider being white british an achievement. I'm an atheist- am I proud of that? No- although it did involve quite a lot of research and thought.

nailak · 12/04/2012 12:20

she means proud as in she wants to keep her culture and wont throw it away. its not really that hard to understand.

Jinsei Thu 12-Apr-12 09:00:23
Can I have wine with scones, please? Not interested in tea or virgins.

what about youthful serving guys?

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