to want to take my pushchair into my doctors surgery?

[gillquil]

my g.p surgery has just banned pushchairs, I've them a letter that follows, is this the norm? or should I just change our G.P.?

Hello,

I would like to make a complaint about the forthcoming ban on pushchairs in the surgery from the first of April. I am a mother of three, my eldest child has just turned four and we have a double pushchair which we normally use for our two youngest. My youngest child has just turned one, and as is typical for his age, he wants to crawl and climb all the time, he definitely doesn?t want to sit on my lap while I wait, he will however normally wait happily in his pushchair, or sleep in it while we wait or during our appointments. My two year old daughter just wants to run around.

If I am unable to bring my pushchair into the surgery I am going to have to let my son crawl over the floor in the surgery which I can?t imagine being the most hygienic thing to do. Or when he is asleep I will have to wake him, and what if both he and his sister are sleeping? do I really want to wait for my appointment struggling with a sobbing two year old daughter and a crying one year old son, my handbag, and changing bag on the floor or on the seat next to me. All of which, toddler, and baby and baggage have to then be carried into the appointment. I would also like to know what is suggested for mothers who need for example to have their young child with them during say a smear test? Should I leave him to crawl around the floor in the surgery during this?

Parents that I know often rely on being able to entertain a young child or children in a pushchair so that they can speak to their G.P. or nurse for a few minutes uninterrupted. Or the child sleeps on through their appointment and waiting time, and the parent can have a proper conversation or treatment.
I don?t have the option of arranging childcare for the times when I need to come to the surgery, especially as we normally ring at 8 a.m to see what appointment we can get if any for that morning.

I asked about the security of the area that has been designated for pushchairs to be left. As far as the lady I spoke to knew, there is none, it seems that the surgery is relying on the area being ?out of sight.? I disagree anyone walking past will be able to see a row of unsecured pushchairs. Pushchairs cost as I am sure you know an enormous amount of money. We live close by and two of my neighbours have had pushchairs stolen from outside their own front doors in the last six months, and we had a child?s scooter taken ourselves. It was suggested also that I buy a bicycle style lock for our chair, but I can?t see what I would secure it to.

While I can see the need for some sort solution to the congestion in the waiting room, as a result of parents and children who are patients at XXX Surgery using pushchairs, I don?t feel that just telling people their only option is to leave their pushchairs outside, in an unsecured area, and carry in their child or children and changing bags, handbags and who knows even their shopping, is acceptable. In fact I think it?s discriminatory. I have spoken to several mothers today who are patients at XXX, as are their children, and they all agree, and have said they will be putting forward their comments also.

I look forward to your reply and hope that XXX can be a bit more creative in finding a solution that doesn?t leave patients feeling unwelcome.

I never ever used a pushchair with a baby or toddler, and I don't have a car. I know that's not the norm but worked for us fine.

I don't understand the attachment to pushchairs really or the idea that you can't manage without one - judging by the endless bus/train/disabled toilet/and now doctors surgery access problems all over MN they seem to me more trouble than they are worth. Of course not for every one, I understand that for some they are necessary (multiple children close in age, disability, etc), but for many they really are not. Bit like cars really.

geriatric - I work full-time. Getting a GPs appointment is a pita as I have to take time off and then rearrange work stuff to make a space. I have to go quite often atm. It makes getting to see a GP quite difficult but not impossible. Ditto with a parent using a pushchair - awkward and a PITA but not inaccessible.

I'm going to say it again. It is not always possible to accomodate every individual's personal circumstances.You can try. But what it boils down to is money and resources. I'm sure the surgeries have no intended malice towards mothers and/or buggies,and their decisions will not have been taken lightly. It will be what is best in the majority of people's interests. It is ,of course, difficult if you do not fit into that category, but where will it end? How far should out-of-the ordinary situations be catered for?

A parent with a baby and/or toddler going to see their GP is not an out of the ordinary situation! It's a very, very ordinary situation. Parents of young children would, one would imagine, make up a substantial percentage of most surgeries 'clientele'. Why is it unreasonable for their needs to be accommodated?

Employees have a right to take time off work to go to a doctor's appointments. This provision exists so that people can access essential medical care. But parents of young children often have no choice but to bring young dcs to appointments, and very often they need to have their hands free to be examined, or they have more than one child with them. Many, many people are in this situation. We should be making it easier for everyone to access medical care, not harder.

well, i woudn't say it's unusual to take a baby or toddler to the docs, but apart from jabs and one post natal weigh in, i've been once in 3.5 years for a non jab appt.

again, maybe on the rarer end of the scale

When I worked full time I never had any difficulty in accessing appointments because I worked. I simply asked my employer for time off, as is the right of every employee. I would, however, have had great difficulty in accessing healthcare if my surgery had decided to ban buggies.

"Employees have a right to take time off work to go to a doctor's appointments"

Yes, they do. But when you are trying to fit in approx 1 appt per week it becomes a bit difficult to fit your workload around them, Not to mention feeling distinctly sheepish about sneaking out of the office (open-plan) during the middle of the day. It's not just about rights. And then of course you get there and there's a long wait and that 'half and hour' out of the office becomes an hour plus...

I was simply trying to point out that GPs are not expected to accomodate anyone - generally their patients have to make arrangments to accomodate them.

I never ever used a pushchair with a baby or toddler, and I don't have a car. I know that's not the norm but worked for us fine.

Good for you :)

I don't understand the attachment to pushchairs really or the idea that you can't manage without one

Personally, I had a Caesarian so wasn't able to carry DS in a sling for the first few weeks of his life. Then did try a sling but didn't get on with them, unfortunately. He's always been too heavy and wriggly for it to be safe, comfortable or practical for me to simply carry him in my arms if we go out and about. The buggy, for us, has been the most sensible and realistic option. Hope this helps :)

You shouldn't feel sheepish about having a medical appointment, it's not as if you are skiving off for no reason. I'm sure you'd rather live in an age when you have that right, rather than years ago when you would have been at the mercy of your employer. The whole point of having an NHS is that everyone should be able to access essential medical care,regardless of their situation, hence the right to time off work, and the payment of travel costs to hospital for people on certain benefits.

It was mentioned that noone knew anyone who had done that. I have so I spoke up, I'm not saying pushchairs are unnecessary for everyone, I understand that whereas not owning one has never hindered my access to healthcare I have not often been transporting multiple children and I am not disabled.

I think banning them is reasonable but if you have additional access needs there should be provision. It is easy enough to mention these needs at the time of making the appointment, and what the needs are, without having to explain your various disabilities or childcare issues to the entire waiting room. I can't see the problem with this. No buggy policy - fine - I will need to bring my twins and have somewhere to put them for my appointment - OK we will make an exception for your buggy today please put it in X spot when you arrive.

Geriatric, it is slightly out of the ordinary that a mother can't cope in a doctors surgery for half an hour without a buggy. Sorry, but it is.

The majority of mothers don't have twins, or depression, or no help at all ever, or more than a baby and a toddler, or mobility problems. That does make it out of the ordinary.

It happens, and it happens enough that these cases should be considered. But I don't see why the minority of people in those situations can't have an exception made for them. The few people who would genuinely struggle are not enough of a reason to allow everyone to have their pushchair in a small space breaking H&S guidelines.

"This is serious.

There is a woman with a buggy, and she cant take it to the doctor!

"

When people are talking about psychosis and depression, really!? You appall me.

I struggled because my ds had chest problems and reflux and was being referred for being at the level of a 1 month old, when he was 6 months old, my dd2 was having huge screaming tantrums several times a day and I was suffering from pnd, I tell you what, it was fucking hysterical. I have to take my ds to the drs on average once a week, thankfully my surgery is full of people that are far more understanding and sensible than some of the people on this thread.

I don't think a thread on mumsnet has ever made me so angry.

I don't think it is out of the ordinary at all to need a buggy in order to hold a baby or restrain a toddler while you are being examined, so that they don't hurt themselves or damage something.

I don't think a thread on mumsnet has ever made me so angry.

Same here, hazeyjane. The sanctimony, smugness and wilful misunderstanding are actually making me feel slightly ill.

I'm starting to think that society in general is irritated by/resentful of mothers with young children and that a hell of a lot of people on mumsnet share that attitude even though they're mothers themselves.

geriaticbabymama

i had a c-section for both babies and never used a pram, just wraps. no problem at all and got about just fine within 24 hours, walking normally, i think i went to the zoo in day 4 with the second. of course, i accept that others don't want to, or can't.

I think the problem is (on this thread and similar threads) that some posters are taking out their frustration about entitled, precious mothers on people that don't deserve it.

I cannot stand mothers who think having a baby in tow/breast feeding/nappy changing means the whole world and it's mother needs to pander and kowtow to their needs.

But I do not think that a mother of young twins, or any parent with several children, is being unreasonable when they want to use a buggy in a doctor's surgery!

oh and now my posting history and health issues are being questioned! Got to love mnet!

i didnt mention my pnp and pnd in the first post becasue i was talking about why i usually go to the gps and mentioned the other days circumstances, i mentoined my pnp and pnd after other sardinequeen? mentioned how they didnt go to the gps as not using hte buggy when they already had mh problems was just another hurdle that made it too much.

i was and am lucky that our surgery allows pushchairs but i said that had i NOT been able to take my baby and toddler in in a pushchair whne i had psychosis and pnd that actually that would have been a barrier that meant i probably didnt go. being able to go and know that they were strapped safely in their pushchair, entertained with toys and a snack whilst i spoke to the gp, or rahter broke down and sobbed meant that i could go, had i have been trying to wrangle a baby and a toddler and had my elder two who were 8 and 6 yrs? at the time with me, would have been a nightmare. as having a wriggly baby and inquisitive toddler would be for the MANY appointments where i have to strip off for the gp to examine my eczema.

i wasnt aware i had to declare ALL of my health problems in one post, i mentioned the ones that were relevant at the time. hth

and with regards to wraps and slings, i LOVE them and have used them lots, but not everyone can or even wants to, that probably why pushchairs were invented, people not being able to or wanting to carry their baby/toddlers all the time!

i had a c-section for both babies and never used a pram, just wraps. no problem at all and got about just fine within 24 hours, walking normally, i think i went to the zoo in day 4 with the second. of course, i accept that others don't want to, or can't.

As I said to the marvellous lady who never used a buggy and couldn't understand why anyone else would ever need one, good for you :)

Our children's centre (where you now take babies for weighing) have banned buggies (have to leave them in buggy park outside) and car seats... I won't be getting my 7mo twins weighed anymore because of it as I physically cannot get them out of their car seats safely to carry 2 babies in. Being prem they don't sit up yet. They seem to be getting less family/child friendly. I flought the rule when I pick up dd1 from nursery as it is through the same reception area as the children's centre. I take the double buggy and good luck to anyone who wants to take me on the amount I pay for dd to be at the nursery!

princesssrumpy my childrens centre has enforced the same rule and i rarely go now, i have no real need and its not worth the haslt,e i did manage when i had to go to see the midwife there but even she saw that it was a pita and very kindly offered to do my checks at home when she could squeeze me in :)

btw i am very glad that my mh issues and pnp that required hospitalisation gave some of you such a laugh, the reality really wasnt that funny, it was a year of hell actually and i wouldnt wish it on my worst enemy, i do hope some of you that found it so amusing never have to experience it yourselves, i suspect you might not find it so amusing then.

bold: had a c-section for both babies and never used a pram, just wraps. no problem at all and got about just fine within 24 hours, walking normally, i think i went to the zoo in day 4 with the second. of course, i accept that others don't want to, or can't.

Errr very dangerous advice for women having cs and certainly not advised. I was up and about 6 hours post op as dtd1 was in scbu and I wanted to see her - wouldn't advise others to do this. I also got told off walking down the corridor to the hospital cafe on day 4 as it was far too far for a woman to walk after cs even though I felt fine. Plus my babies would have been too small for most wrap.

*I never ever used a pushchair with a baby or toddler, and I don't have a car. I know that's not the norm but worked for us fine.

I don't understand the attachment to pushchairs really or the idea that you can't manage without one - judging by the endless bus/train/disabled toilet/and now doctors surgery access problems all over MN they seem to me more trouble than they are worth. Of course not for every one, I understand that for some they are necessary (multiple children close in age, disability, etc), but for many they really are not. Bit like cars really.*

Sanctimonous and narrow minded piffle.

How many more times do I have to read "I managed and so should you" style bollocks?

This is soo patronising I don't know where to begin.

Well done MissCoffeeNWine. Well done you! if only we could all be so bloody perfect. Your total lack of understanding and disingenous faux bafflement is ridiculous. Some people need pushchairs/prams and are not disabled and do not have multiple children. A little understanding and compassion would go a long way.

I don't think it's a question of places getting less family friendly, I would imagine it's got something to do with increasing numbers using the building and buggies getting bigger. There is going to be an issue with space however you look at it - so it isn't just a question of the management of the building deciding to be nasty to parents with pushchairs, it's a question of balancing needs. And I suspect H&S has it's influence on the situation too.

The letter in the OP was asking for comments - clearly it's going to receive some! Hopefully that means that the situation will be reconsidered if at all possible.

And why doesn't bold work?

Here are ways I have done it:

baby/toddler in sling on front asleep whilst being examined/treated.
baby/toddler in sling on the back whilst being examined/treated.
baby/toddler sat up on chest/knee/stomach whilst being examined/treated
baby/toddler sat/laid on bed next to me with my arm round them whilst being examined/treated.

(all depending on where needs examining of course!)

baby given injections whilst in sling on front once she didn't even wake up.
baby/toddler sat in chair next to bed holding hands with me.
toddler sat in chair next to doctor's desk.
toddler sat next to me in chair whilst having blood tests. She got her own plaster and was very pleased with it.
toddler began sitting next to me on chair for smear but asked to come up and sat on the bed chatting to me whilst it was done.

All with suitable distractions/snacks/whathaveyou as necessary.

There are other options but those are the ones I have done. I understand it gets more difficult with more than one child, and yes there will always be exceptions. But at my surgery the rooms aren't much bigger than your average loo cubicle so not much room for buggy or for toddler to wreak havoc!