to want to take my pushchair into my doctors surgery?

[gillquil]

my g.p surgery has just banned pushchairs, I've them a letter that follows, is this the norm? or should I just change our G.P.?

Hello,

I would like to make a complaint about the forthcoming ban on pushchairs in the surgery from the first of April. I am a mother of three, my eldest child has just turned four and we have a double pushchair which we normally use for our two youngest. My youngest child has just turned one, and as is typical for his age, he wants to crawl and climb all the time, he definitely doesn?t want to sit on my lap while I wait, he will however normally wait happily in his pushchair, or sleep in it while we wait or during our appointments. My two year old daughter just wants to run around.

If I am unable to bring my pushchair into the surgery I am going to have to let my son crawl over the floor in the surgery which I can?t imagine being the most hygienic thing to do. Or when he is asleep I will have to wake him, and what if both he and his sister are sleeping? do I really want to wait for my appointment struggling with a sobbing two year old daughter and a crying one year old son, my handbag, and changing bag on the floor or on the seat next to me. All of which, toddler, and baby and baggage have to then be carried into the appointment. I would also like to know what is suggested for mothers who need for example to have their young child with them during say a smear test? Should I leave him to crawl around the floor in the surgery during this?

Parents that I know often rely on being able to entertain a young child or children in a pushchair so that they can speak to their G.P. or nurse for a few minutes uninterrupted. Or the child sleeps on through their appointment and waiting time, and the parent can have a proper conversation or treatment.
I don?t have the option of arranging childcare for the times when I need to come to the surgery, especially as we normally ring at 8 a.m to see what appointment we can get if any for that morning.

I asked about the security of the area that has been designated for pushchairs to be left. As far as the lady I spoke to knew, there is none, it seems that the surgery is relying on the area being ?out of sight.? I disagree anyone walking past will be able to see a row of unsecured pushchairs. Pushchairs cost as I am sure you know an enormous amount of money. We live close by and two of my neighbours have had pushchairs stolen from outside their own front doors in the last six months, and we had a child?s scooter taken ourselves. It was suggested also that I buy a bicycle style lock for our chair, but I can?t see what I would secure it to.

While I can see the need for some sort solution to the congestion in the waiting room, as a result of parents and children who are patients at XXX Surgery using pushchairs, I don?t feel that just telling people their only option is to leave their pushchairs outside, in an unsecured area, and carry in their child or children and changing bags, handbags and who knows even their shopping, is acceptable. In fact I think it?s discriminatory. I have spoken to several mothers today who are patients at XXX, as are their children, and they all agree, and have said they will be putting forward their comments also.

I look forward to your reply and hope that XXX can be a bit more creative in finding a solution that doesn?t leave patients feeling unwelcome.

No-one has said it is a gross infringement of rights

What people have said is that some women find it difficult or impossible to access the healthcare that they need, and that is not a good state of affairs.

Yet again surprised to find argument with that, but there you go.

And Claire, this thread is terribly nasty, even by AIBU standards.

It is not often that you get people telling others, who they know have mental health issues, that they should not have had their children, or that their children should be removed. Whichever way you cut it those are terribly nasty things to say. I am concerned about lurkers in this situation who will be even further put off getting the help that they need.

It's like AIBU bingo in here.

Your argument is a "strawman" aka the most pointless refutation for an argument ever
Strapping children into pushchairs as a replacement for "real parenting".
Depression is just a western world "whinge".
Sense of entitlement.
Think of how much harder people have it in war-torn, poverty-stricken countries and count yourself lucky.
If you can't hack kids you shouldn't have had them etc etc.

And as for this:

"Whinge, whinge, whinge.

When I look around my surgery and see the people, many of whom have encountered not insignificant struggles to get to this country, and whose lives may be fairly difficult even here, and having experienced life in underdeveloped countries, such as China and Egypt, I can't help thinking that for most people even the depressed mother, or the mother of a few children (I have been there too) a few minutes without a buggy in a doctors surgery is not a gross infringement of their rights."

Yes, because not being able to access healthcare for mental health needs is the same as being the mother of a few children and generally speaking, they should just pull themselves together and realise how much worse off they'd be in China or Egypt (where everyone has a miserable existence and there aren't educated, well-off people at all, because them folks are all poor and miserable dontcha know). It's amazing you can tell the struggles people have faced just by guessing at their ethnic profile and simultaneously assume "the depressed mother" just needs to get on with it, sort themselves out, cop themselves on etc.

Clearly, women suffering from depression in the western world are like this because they went into birth hoping for a candle-lit whale music experience or their mother-in-law doesn't understand that they don't want to give sugar to their tot before the age of 1 or that they can't afford the contents of this month's Boden catalogue. They haven't been beaten, abused or suffered any torment comparable to those Chinese or Egyptians who you can spot a mile off in your local surgery by virtue of their noble struggle to come to this country .

Top rant there, thunks, good stuff, really enjoyed reading that

Totally agree with all of it.

I cannot believe this debate is still ongoing, all this is now is a slanging match.
One of which has now got very silly & if no-one has any solutions there really is no point in commenting any further.
I had suggestions, other people has suggestions and now all people are doing is arguing and comparing the needs of depressed mothers vs other things which aren't really the same.
There is a problem, solutions are needed for that problem & unless anyone has anything useful to say then why answer thread. Over & out

What people have said is that some women find it difficult or impossible to access the healthcare that they need, and that is not a good state of affairs. Yet again surprised to find argument with that, but there you go.

Sigh.

Again, let us state the case for the rational people on the thread, those vile, disgusting trolls (to quote just some of the slanging levelled at us) who are trying to explain why this is happening.

The reason these buggy bans are coming in is that smaller surgeries are being told that for H&S, fire risk and insurance reasons they have to leave space. Buggies take up the space. It is too hard to ask people to self-define whether they need to bring their buggy or not, they won't - hence the bans.

The cost of converting/upgrading/moving a surgery is massive. The state is effectively skint. The vast majority of people will cope with bans, so no one will willingly pay extra. so it ain't going to happen. The chances of rescinding H&S and insurance legislation is negligible.

And everytimne this is explained its this just sets off another page or 3 of howling about how terrible it all is, and how beastly those are who are just stating these obvious facts are.

I agree with the above poster - unless one has a realistic solution, that is feasible, there really is no point in continuing this discussion.

If you think this thread is nasty, stop contributing!

Walk away!

Claire people need to keep challenging the views of you and others on here, for the sake of anyone who may be lurking and feeling like shit.

Whatmeworry would you care to explain now why you think that women who try to speak to their GP practices about problems with access to their doctor, should be told to bog off.

Thanks

I get the impression this thread had turned into a bit of a free for all somehow, but ignoring that I don't think the ops practice are being unreasonable, my gp has never allowed prams in past the 'pram park' area there simply isn't room for them anywhere else.

Op why not suggest that they have a 'play area' with a selection of toys and bits which can be used to help entertain children who are waiting with parents?

i wasnt going to come back to this, but i do have a few more things to mention, just things to think about.

a story for you, sadly true.

A woman in her late 20's has her first baby, her husband works away a lot, she gets on ok, but its tired and run down with one illness after another, she also has heavy periods and finds things a bit uncomfortable 'down there' she does see the gp who basically says its because she has a baby and her partner is away and maybe she is anaemic, they rpescribe iron tablets and say to get her blood tested. the GP puts her female problems of heavy, irregular periods and discomfort down to the fact she is bfeeding and her hormones etc.
She thinks ok, she starts taking the iron tablets as prescribed and around the same time also goes back to work part time, she never gets around to getting the blood test, as its just one of those things on her list of things to do and finding childcare etc for an extra appointment and fitting it in with work.... etc etc it doesnt happen.

a few months later life is carrying on, the mum is ok, and she falls pregnant with baby no 2, around this time she is also due a smear test, but as she is pregnant the dr says they will do it at her 6wk check after the birth, the pregnancy continues, not an easy pregnancy, spotting here and there and mum run donw, but nothing hugely abnormal.

cue delivery day, having had a normal vaginal delivery for no 1, she expects roughly the same for no 2, when she goes into labour she goes to hospital, the midwife examines her to see how she is getting on (she has her mum with her as her dh is away) the mum sees a a fleeting look on panic on the midwives face as her daughter is examined, the midwife then goes to get another midwife. who examines her and says they just want to get a dr to check something, but not to worry the baby is fine.

the dr comes and examines her and they then tell the lady in labour that she has a 'mass' on her cervix, this means that even tho she is dilating she wont be able to have a vaginal delivery, it is also propably the cause of her spotting during pregnancy and once they have delivered baby safely by c section they will have a look, its probably a cyst etc etc.

so they do the c section, baby delivered healthy and fine, but mum haemorrages, they end up doing a complete hysterectomy to save her life.

ok not great but mum happy to be alive, they have two children etc, only a few weeks later they get a call to the hospital, the 'mass' on her cervix turned out to be a tumour, the cancer had already spread, they found it in the womb etc, they hoped that as they had reomved her womb that maybe she would be ok, but further tests showed the cancer had spread, they did try further treatments.

sadly three months after the birth of her baby the mum died :(

We all often as mum ignore our own minor health problems or put them down to being tired etc, as this mum and her gp did. had she managed to get that blood test or that smear done before she was pregnant with no 2, things may have been caught and the outcome different, her consultant explianed to her dh that her pregnancy may well have accelorated the growth of the cancer, she was 28, it was a rare, agressive cancer, but they would never know if it was the pregnancy that masked symptoms, she had had heavy, irregular bleeding which should have been checked out but was put down to a 'hormones' with bfeeding and then the delayed smear test, just bad luck.

this is a very sad story but it just shows how mums dont always see the gp when they should or when they do its often just 'well your a mum you are tired, bfeeding etc' so her symptoms werent investigated further, again just bad luck and no one at fault.

but couple a mum who already is busy, has young children and doesnt always prioritise her own health, and then add in more difficulties SUCH AS A PUSHCHAIR BAN, then it IS just another barrier,another reason for her to think its not worth the hastle of going to the gp. Yes this is an extreme example i am using, but it happens up and down the country in many lesser ways.

i have put of seeing the gp for my eczema as its a pain to phone and only be able to get an appointment if you phone at 8am, when i am just going out of the door to do the school run!

when i was ill after ds4 and in psych unit i missed an app to see the dermatoligist at the hospital, i explained this a few months later when i was well and needed to see the dermatologist and was told that as i had missed an app i needed to see the gp to get a re refferal, i said but i was in a psych unit i have my discharge letter with the dates and reason etc, but no the rule is you miss an app you need to be re reffered!

i finally manage to see my gp and get the referal, who agrees its stupid but rules are rules and despite the fact i had a valid reason to miss my app i now have to go back on the waiting list to see the consultant! i do so but also tick the box saying i will take an app at short notice, one day i get a call saying there is an app at 12:30, ok i say i will take it, i only have the baby to take with me the othesr are at pre-school and school. i have to get them at 3:00 but its a shortish journey from hospital to school so that will be fine.

only when i get to the hospital they are running half an hour late, thats stil ok tho :)

cue half an hour later when the receptionist then puts up a note saying appoinment are running 55mins late! but thats still doable so i wait some more, thankfully the baby is sleeping/feeding etc. at 1:30 i ask and still they are running late, it gets to 2pm and i still havent been seen, i explain i need to leave by 2:30 to get the bus and get to school to pick up my other children and if i am not seen soon i will have to just leave.

to be told "if you leave and miss your appointment you will need to referred again by your gp" i am slightly incredulous and explain my app was at 12:30 i took it at short notice and that i have children to pick up and i CANNOT just wait for an infinite period of time.

the receptionist simply tells me that I am CHOOSING to miss an app, then looks at my records and says 'which you have form for doing' i expliani to her YES I missed ONE app, when i was in HOSPITAL very ill, she shrugs and mutters something about there always being an excuse, at this point i tell her i will write and send a copy of my dishcharge papers so she can see that i was infact in hospital and unable to attend and i shall also complain aobut the fact i HAVE waited 2hrs but due to having children to pick up i HAVE to leave and am therefore being told i need a re referral as i am CHOOSING to miss an app, which i am really NOT, i am simply having to collect my children i was there at my app time and for 2 hrs afterwards!

The system has flaws already but that make it difficult and you know waht i dont mind too much, its free (well paid for by taxes) but i AM hugely grateful for the nhs, but a bit of flexibility, i e the receptionist saying yes i understand you need to get your kids and cant wait, so i will try and find you another appointment slot, or the fact that when i missed my first app as i was in hospital, they could have listened to my reason (i could have faxed through the 'proof') and then they could have re booked me an app, but NO rules are rules!!!

so adding yet another 'rule' that will make it harder for mothers (generally) is just another thing that will make it harder for them to access healthcare when some can and do struggle already, its just something else to discourage them and in familes where people are busy and stressed or just getting on with life, even the smallest of things can be used as a reason for not going to the dr, to time, to childcare, to them thinking they dont really need to see the gp and thinking they are 'making a fuss'. these things are small and inconsequential to some but they add up to make it seem a bigger struggle and a pushchair ban would add to that for some people.

fwiw i liked kung fu pandas idea they ask when you book will you be brining a pushcahr and that way they can allocate space for one or two pushchair, however many they can depending on their location etc.

anyway this thread is nearly full, so hopefully this bloody message with now post!

the mum i mentioned above btw, is the daughter of a work colleague, who a relative of mine works with.

5madthings
Lots of departments do discharge after a single DNA.
This is probably a bit academic, but it sounds like the receptionisnt was going to mark you as a DNA (Did not attend) for the appointment, rather than a CNW (Could not wait) which is what she should have done, therefore you should not have been discharged. From your post it sounds like its probably too long ago to be worth raising.

Also, in the system that operates in my area you would not be marked as a DNA if you were a hopsital inpatient at the time.

Its pretty irritating when departments for whatever reason are continually having people waiting for hours past their appointment time.

It's a shame and I'm sure you'll struggle at first but people will have to adapt.

My surgery banned prams too. Everytime I went it was a struggle to move without tripping over prams or children playing on the floor. It didn't help that some of the mums brought their friends who had children (and prams) and didn't even have appointments themselves! Simply to keep them company :/

I think this thread should now be about solutions as people do need one.
5madthings post is of the extreme but it can happen and continues to happen to many people and until a solution is found a buggyban is one more obsticle for a mother to cross.
Solutions has anyone thought of something that may work? Or that has already worked in their surgery?

cats i think the receptionsist was having a bad day, lots of people complaining about the wait, obviously! but it was annoying and it is some time ago,so i never complained and am currently back in the system waiting for an appointment again, hey ho.

obviously the sytems vary depending on where you live? postcode lottery again, i think that kung fus idea of allocating buggy space at the booking of the app would be good or if htey cant do that i can cope in the waiting room with no pushchair, but in the drs room if i need to strip off or gets bloods done etc, then a bounch chair type thing, or just a pack up play pen, you can get very small ones, hell those pop out type ones that zip up? ti stick baby/toddler in whilst i am examined etc, if a drs surgery had something like that that could be requested?

thunksheadontable Depressed mothers suffering from Post Natal Depression/ Post traumatic tress/ Puerperal Psychosis CANNOT JUST DUST THEMSELVES OFF AND CARRY ON IM AFRAID, IF ONLY LIFE WAS THAT SIMPLE. who are you too decide who has suffered trauma, we dont all walk around with a sign on our heads saying ive been beaten/ abused/ assaulted/ kept prisoner I know I dont.

we all have stories to tell and have had difficult times, this is not about what has happened in our pasts it is what is going on in the present and if a women presently has any of the above illnesses or not it is difficult when you have 4 children in tow 2 below the age of 2.

Anyway i'm wasting my time writing this i know but just had to reply to your sweeping statements.

I never comment on something I personally havent experienced that way I am coming from a personal experience point of view :)

staycalmandcarryon i think thunks was being sarcastic, she is actually saying they cant do that and agreeing with some of the posters on here!

hence the post at the end of her comment btw :)

5madthings-Do you not know any other parents who could have picked your DC up? Failing that I would have rung the school and told them that I was stuck at the hospital.I would have kicked up an unholy stink at the hospital and demanded to speak to someone in charge.
Stop putting everyone else first!

Whatmeworry would you care to explain now why you think that women who try to speak to their GP practices about problems with access to their doctor, should be told to bog off.

Sardine, I never said that and you know it.

When it come to quoting people out of contect, making up stuff, twisting words, putting up false straw men and just outright fabrication, you absolutely take the biscuit.

So

yes i do but they had other commitments that day, as people do.

as it was this was when i was still recovering from pnp and pnd and i did get shirty with the receptionist but actually it wasnt her fault that they were running late and she was following the 'rules' so no good would have come from me kicking up a stink.

i dont put everyone else first, and what are the school supposed to do if i ring up and say i am stuck at hospital? i could have been ages, they legally dont have to look after my children, i would be putting the school in a very unfair postion, i like my children school and the staff there adn i wouldnt do that to them, i respect them for the job they do,they are NOT a childcare service!

Sardine - and also you are the queen calling people all sorts of names just for disagreeing with you.

HTH :)