to want to take my pushchair into my doctors surgery?

[gillquil]

my g.p surgery has just banned pushchairs, I've them a letter that follows, is this the norm? or should I just change our G.P.?

Hello,

I would like to make a complaint about the forthcoming ban on pushchairs in the surgery from the first of April. I am a mother of three, my eldest child has just turned four and we have a double pushchair which we normally use for our two youngest. My youngest child has just turned one, and as is typical for his age, he wants to crawl and climb all the time, he definitely doesn?t want to sit on my lap while I wait, he will however normally wait happily in his pushchair, or sleep in it while we wait or during our appointments. My two year old daughter just wants to run around.

If I am unable to bring my pushchair into the surgery I am going to have to let my son crawl over the floor in the surgery which I can?t imagine being the most hygienic thing to do. Or when he is asleep I will have to wake him, and what if both he and his sister are sleeping? do I really want to wait for my appointment struggling with a sobbing two year old daughter and a crying one year old son, my handbag, and changing bag on the floor or on the seat next to me. All of which, toddler, and baby and baggage have to then be carried into the appointment. I would also like to know what is suggested for mothers who need for example to have their young child with them during say a smear test? Should I leave him to crawl around the floor in the surgery during this?

Parents that I know often rely on being able to entertain a young child or children in a pushchair so that they can speak to their G.P. or nurse for a few minutes uninterrupted. Or the child sleeps on through their appointment and waiting time, and the parent can have a proper conversation or treatment.
I don?t have the option of arranging childcare for the times when I need to come to the surgery, especially as we normally ring at 8 a.m to see what appointment we can get if any for that morning.

I asked about the security of the area that has been designated for pushchairs to be left. As far as the lady I spoke to knew, there is none, it seems that the surgery is relying on the area being ?out of sight.? I disagree anyone walking past will be able to see a row of unsecured pushchairs. Pushchairs cost as I am sure you know an enormous amount of money. We live close by and two of my neighbours have had pushchairs stolen from outside their own front doors in the last six months, and we had a child?s scooter taken ourselves. It was suggested also that I buy a bicycle style lock for our chair, but I can?t see what I would secure it to.

While I can see the need for some sort solution to the congestion in the waiting room, as a result of parents and children who are patients at XXX Surgery using pushchairs, I don?t feel that just telling people their only option is to leave their pushchairs outside, in an unsecured area, and carry in their child or children and changing bags, handbags and who knows even their shopping, is acceptable. In fact I think it?s discriminatory. I have spoken to several mothers today who are patients at XXX, as are their children, and they all agree, and have said they will be putting forward their comments also.

I look forward to your reply and hope that XXX can be a bit more creative in finding a solution that doesn?t leave patients feeling unwelcome.

There are reasons why pushchairs should be allowed but some people are acting like the world would cave in if they had to hold their baby. Is it ideal? No but if there is restricted space, what can you do? Literally, space is sometimes limited. Some H&S stuff is crap but some is serious. If there was a fire, would you want to climb over 10 prams to get out?

Sorry, I haven't read the entire thread so maybe this has been commented already but a lot of the "anti buggy" arguments do seem to be from people who are assuming everyone has the privilege of

A: Having a car, so being able to drive to the surgery and bring their DC in in a car seat.

B: Having family or friends who are able to look after your DC while you go to the doctors.

C: Being registered at a surgery that allows patients to make appointments in advance, as opposed to having to call at 8am and being given a same day appointment (thereby making it much harder to arrange childcare cover if you do have people you can call on for help).

D: Being able to afford to replace a buggy if it was stolen because it was left outside.

I'm sure there are others but these are the ones that stand out to me. Many, many people do have to bring their DC to appointments because they really don't have a choice about it. Many of us do have to walk some distance there or use public transport. And many of us would be absolutely screwed if our buggy was nicked - even the cheaper ones are not especially affordable if you're on a tight budget. And of course there's the side issue of how you'd get your DC home (with no car, remember?).

Is it really selfish and entitled for parents in this situation to want to bring their buggy in with them, given that they actually don't have the option of leaving it or their DC at home? And that having a buggy stolen would be a genuine catastrophe as opposed to an annoyance?

I think that this policy is discriminatory even if it's not intentionally so.

Oopsi I think that in context it all makes perfect sense, that 5madthings didn't give her entire medical history in one post!

That earlier post was about her difficulties making an appointment yesterday, and that appointment wasn't for pnd or pnp!

Jessie, I woudo suspect that the ends most surgeries are worried about are their own rather than that of a few people who really cannot manage without, because the fact is that if the day ever came where someone was prevented from getting out of the surgery safely in the event of a fire because of too many pushchairs cluttering the walkway, they would be in serious trouble. Not to mention that someone else could be seriously injured, which like it or not, is a worse outcome than a mother feeling frazzled and struggling to cope with an appointment.

geriatric, it is not selfish for a mother to want to bring her pram into the surgery, but it is selfish if she thinks her needs should trump everyone else's when she has been told she can't bring her pram in for good reason.

So, rather than saying that the surgery has had to make a hard decision in favour of the greater good of all their patients, you're saying that the difficulties that some patients will have ain't nuffink to do with the surgery?

I expect that this is nit-picking to you, but the latter does make me inclined to "bang on".

Eh, thank the deities I don't believe in (thus barring me from joining a church group, ) that my children walk everywhere now. When we get there, they can then take up seats, instead!

Well, I appreciate the health and safety issues and accept that fire safety rules must be adhered to :)

However, this is discrimination against parents of young children as it makes it very difficult for them to get medical treatment if they're not privileged enough to have a car, people to help them with childcare or enough money to easily replace a stolen buggy

If GP surgeries cannot accommodate babies in buggies as well as wheelchairs then they're failing their patients (this also goes for surgeries with other access problems like steep stairs and no lift). They should move to buildings that are more fit for purpose. Or at the very least, provide a secure room for buggies to be locked in, rather than just left outside for anyone to walk off with. I'm lucky in that my doctors surgery is all on the ground floor, with an enormous waiting room and plenty of space for every patient to bring a buggy with them if they wanted to. There are no access issues for any patients. This is the way it should be for everybody.

I think that is why this thread has gone on so long!

"Surgery has honestly considered all the impacts and decided pushchair-ban is best solution" might meet with public acceptance.

Any perception that the surgery has decided that serving the needs of some vulnerable patients is not part of their remit will meet wih argument. Because we will think, Oh, so this wouldn't happen, or would happen differently if they thought it was an issue worth their consideration, would it?

Any perception that the surgery has decided that serving the needs of some vulnerable patients is not part of their remit will meet wih argument. Because we will think, Oh, so this wouldn't happen, or would happen differently if they thought it was an issue worth their consideration, would it?

It should be part of their remit and worthy of their consideration though! The NHS is there to treat everybody, so should make sure all patients are able to access their GP service. I don't understand why this isn't the case

This thread has gone on far too long bit i can see why.
Pushchairs should be allowed in-end of

I'm not saying that the difficulties some patients face is nothing to do with the surgery, not at all. I'm just trying to look at it from the bigger picture and bear in mind that there is more than one issue to consider.

In an ideal world, of course there would be no access issues for any patients. We would all have access to surgeries that are big enough to accommodate numerous pushchairs as well as wheelchairs as well as providing safe walkways and emergency exits. But it's just not going to happen. At least not any time soon. There simply isn't the money to revamp every single surgery in the country to enable every parent to take a pushchair in with them. The NHS has many much more important priorities.

So we come back to the same problem. Not enough space to enable the depressed mother with numerous children and limited mobility to be able to safely bring her pushchair into the surgery, along with all the other mothers that would want their pushchairs with them out of convenience rather than need.

The most satisfactory solution I could see in thise circumstances is for a ban to be implemented, but discretion to be used when there is a clear need. But even that is not good enough for some posters because a mother may have to talk to a receptionist and tell them why they need their pushchair. Again, ideally this wouldn't have to happen, but unless we are going to magic up the money to rebuild every small surgery, there isn't an alternative that will solve the other problems. Someone somewhere is going to have to make a compromise, and tbh, I don't see why it's so bad to ask the people who need the pushchairs to do some of the compromising too.

It is hard to ask for help when depressed or suffering with anxiety or whatever, but I think that's just part of life that can't be helped sometimes.

Wow, no wonder women still experience discrimination, and mothers even more so - even mothers discriminate against mothers! What an astounding lack of empathy and competition shown by some on this thread.

Is it really so hard to understand that everyone should be able to access their local health provider? Or that the solutions which happen to work for you might not work for other mothers all of the time?

Of course, we should all be reasonable and avoid taking pushchairs into crowded surgeries where we can, but a ban sends out entirely the wrong message. A polite message saying ''where possible, please leave your pushchair outside'' should be enough.

do what i do and not own a pushchair -- well, i lie, i bought a second and one last fortnight as my second daughter is heavy, but i haven't used it and don't think i will.

problem solved!

The thing is Outraged,

a) I'm not convinced there aren't other H&S options, even in fairly small surgeries. For example, seats like on buses or the tube which fold up against the wall when not in use could mean that some pushchairs could be brought in without blocking the gangways.

b) the health service is publicly funded and that means GP partnerships have a duty to ensure that their service is accessible by all. If the current building isn't easily accessible then they need to make it accessible or move buildings. This happened a number of years ago in relation to disabilities - a number of business owners made a huge hoohaa beforehand about costs but in the end they knuckled down and got on with it and it wasn't the end of the world. I suspect it would be the same if GPs were made to sort out more accessible premises generally, including for parents. The problem is, IMO, parents are so busy attacking one another and engaging in competitive parenting that we lack a cohesive 'parenting' voice.

Why did you buy it then if you aren't planning to use it?

Why wouldnt u need a pushchair?-obviously got a car

I don't know how long the op has been using this surgery, but presumably people have been bringing buggies in up until now. Exactly what problems were they causing? I've never seen more than one or two buggies at a time in my surgery and have never seen any issues cause by them being there. The idea of people having to climb over 10 buggies if there was a fire sounds a bit ridiculous to me.

I've never met anyone irl who never, ever used a buggy when they had a baby or toddler.

This is clearly a case for the wonderpets.

This is serious.

There is a woman with a buggy, and she cant take it to the doctor!

What are we going to do: TEAMWORK

QS - personally I find your posts rude and incredibly disrespectful to those posters who have taken the time to explain their own personal, often difficult, circumstances on this thread.

QS-comparing wonderpets to a truelife problem-very grown-up.......not!

I'm going to say it again. It is not always possible to accomodate every individual's personal circumstances.You can try. But what it boils down to is money and resources. I'm sure the surgeries have no intended malice towards mothers and/or buggies,and their decisions will not have been taken lightly. It will be what is best in the majority of people's interests. It is ,of course, difficult if you do not fit into that category, but where will it end? How far should out-of-the ordinary situations be catered for? And shouldn't you at least try to meet them half-way by organising some sort of help e.g someone to come with you to your appointment ? Again, I know this is difficult if you are after an urgent, on-the- day appointment, but for all other routine ,bookable appointments, shouldn't you at least try?

Scroobious, your idea about folding seats is a good one, and I'm sure in some surgeries it would work, although it might not work in all of them. And in small surgeries it would probably only help one or two buggy users so the problem of too many pushchairs would still occur at some point and someone would have to be told to leave theirs elsewhere.

But something like that may at least make mothers feel like their needs have been considered, so they would be more open to leaving their pushchair if they had to.

While I agree that surgeries have to be accessible by all, I think that can be taken too far. It's not too much to ask that patients help themselves too instead of expecting everything to be done to their convenience. If a mother can't access the GP because she has to bring children, I think that is as much her problem as it is the surgeries. They can only do so much, and while they should do what they can within reason, so should parents.

I think it's a bit much to expect the NHS to spend a fortune moving buildings because a few mothers are feeling too depresses to ask if they can take their pushchair in or because they have no one they can ask for childcare. Those things should be considered by a surgery, but they shudo be dealt with by the parent. It is an individual's responsibility to access healthcare if they need it, we can't blame everything on the NHS.

halcyondays

true, neither have i. but it is possible, and in my case, i prefer it. gives us freedom as youngest (8 months) naps in it while 3.5 year old walks or scoots or we use public transport most days. i napped then 2-3 year old in slings while pregnant without a problem.

but yes, we're unusual i guess

why did i buy it? well, it's second hand and was local, so a no brainer.

i thought i'd need it as second daughter gets bigger. plus we do lots of zoo/museum/aquarium outings carrying picnic stuff and it can be heavy. so in future i may need it, so i have it therein case i wake up with slipped disc!

i used it once and found it more of a hindrance so haven't used it since (baby currently feeding to sleep now in sling)

i use the car once a month to visit in laws. the baby hates it so i don't use it. plus we're in london so public transport is easier

While I agree that surgeries have to be accessible by all, I think that can be taken too far. It's not too much to ask that patients help themselves too instead of expecting everything to be done to their convenience. If a mother can't access the GP because she has to bring children, I think that is as much her problem as it is the surgeries. They can only do so much, and while they should do what they can within reason, so should parents.

I think it's a bit much to expect the NHS to spend a fortune moving buildings because a few mothers are feeling too depresses to ask if they can take their pushchair in or because they have no one they can ask for childcare. Those things should be considered by a surgery, but they shudo be dealt with by the parent. It is an individual's responsibility to access healthcare if they need it, we can't blame everything on the NHS

Right, so you think that if someone can't get to their GP because of physical difficulties with getting there, that's their own problem and they should have to go without treatment. Okaaaay But what about young children who can't see a doctor because of the difficulty their parents have in accessing the surgery? Is that just hard luck too?