to think this does not constitute potty training

[mindthebump40]

We are having issues with toileting our 4 year old. MIL announces today that both dh and dsil were potty trained at 18 months. Apparently they uses pottys in them days and they sat on them till they went.
I may be oversensitive but I offended by this. I used pottys too you know. Just find it difficult to make a 4 year old sit on potty until he poos. Wees ok.

Pandemoniaa many children at the age of 18 months are potty trained.

My dd2 was 19 months, she simply indicted that she wanted to sit on the potty and she used it. I suspect many more children are ready at this age then we realise. I did use cloth nappies, and she did she her older sister using the potty.

Historically and geographically, four years old is very late for potty training.

sounds to me like he just likes to have a nice, relaxing poo in bed.

insancerre I agree with you. I also think that the later you potty train, the more chance that problems will be psychological.

Under the age of two it is purely a physically process. But a three/four year old child is far more likely to worry and get stressed about potty training.

Both my DS were fully potty trained at 20 months.

We have tried the bribery so far without success.
I personally feel ditching the pyjama pants is a good idea though. DH not so keen though. Will need to chat further.
Yes, sorry he does have the odd accident in pants but its always at night time/evening. Never during the day.

Bump - I have a just turned 4yo who we have had huge issues with. People who haven't experienced a refuser/reluctant child really don't have a clue how hard it is, and how its not just a case of plonking them on the loo like it is with most children. Accept your Mil's advice graciously but try not to worry about whether you should do as she says as he'd advice probably wouldn't work on a difficult case like your DS. My DS never had poo accidents except at home (so he had complete control of his poos) when he would just chose to do it in his pants- he told us he preferred this to the potty or that he was too busy playing to go to loo etc. Standard rewards of stickers/choc button didn't work and He hated attention, so praise didn't help. We have (fingers crossed) finally cracked it by offering a coin every time he pooed on toilet. 10 coins = train he wanted. No praise, just matter of fact 'let's put a coin in your jar'. Really neutral about accidents and told him that he had to take responsibility for them - so he had to tell us, take dirty pants to laundry, fetch new ones. This was worked out in conjunction with HV who said psychologists won't consider child under 5 or 6 as it isn't considered a problem until then as do many children refuse aged 3 and 4. She said my DS was one of the more stubborn she has seen but still within realms of normal.

PM me if you want me to explain it in more detail.

From experience forcing children to Potty train makes the situation worse .. my son had serious issues with doing a poo on the potty he wasn't constipated but would hold it in till he was in agony with screaming fits. We had to visit the health visitor for a oral solution to make him go. He grad

He gradually got used to sensation but he still goes for a few days before going but we don't pressure him.

Thank you lemniscate. i really want to get this cracked .
We have started to get him to take ownership for accidents but clearly need to relax more.
Coins in a jar is a great idea as it visualises it more.

DS fed off our anxiety hugely. We had to let that go before we saw any results, and any tiny hint of emotion from us (even a big sigh) sent him backwards. Being completely poker face and neutral was the only way it would work. Also DH and
I could only talk about it once he was asleep as hearing us even
Discuss whether he'd had an accident or not would send him Backwards. He had to choose to do it himself and not feel in any way that we had an opinion on it! Hence, coin in jar which he got to do himself, or sorting out clothes if he had an accident. He soon worked out what was preferable for him.

I think you need to remove the night time nappy, tell him he's a big enough boy now to do it himself on the loo and just hand the responsibility to him. Make it clear he has to be involved in the clean up if he chooses to have an accident. Scary for you, but I think the only way at this age.

I agree with lemniscate - all the time he is in a nappy you are not helping him.

Don't worry, 4 is within completely normal range. Some kids do it at 18 months, some at 5 years. Same with reading, swimming, anything. Most kds have a big gap between toilet training and reading; dd did both together. It will be fine.

Standard rewards of stickers/choc button didn't work and He hated attention, so praise didn't help. We have (fingers crossed) finally cracked it by offering a coin every time he pooed on toilet. 10 coins = train he wanted. No praise, just matter of fact 'let's put a coin in your jar'.

The key here is finding a reward that your child wants. When ds1 was 5 he loathed stickers -couldn't tolerate them near him, he didn't understand star charts, didn't want any toys, didn't understand money, the only thing we had a reward for him at the time was choc buttons given immediately. If you're having trouble with any behaviour and want to use rewards they have to be individualised. This is where advice often goes amiss. HV's etc would tell me to use stickers and completely fail to understand that giving ds1 a sticker was the equivalent of giving him something he hated so wasn't going to reinforce anything.

Lots of children have an issue with doing 'poos' in the toilet so will wait until they have a nappy on. It is better not to stress over it. I would actually start getting him ready for bed earlier, with a nappy on, so that he 'poos' earlier and not once he has been put to bed. Make it a non issue. After a couple of weeks offer him a big bribe (whatever it is that makes it 'worth it' for him, whether that's a bit of chocolate/a second bedtime story/a go on your phone/game/ or some coins. Most kids I know love 'money' - it only needs to be coppers! 5 x 1p pieces and they think they own the world :)) for anytime he goes 'poos' on the toilet instead of his nappy, don't bang on about it, just mention it from time to time. It will soon work itself out.

Also, make sure it is soft enough and easy enough for him to pass, if it's not, he might need a slight change in diet or some movicol.

Really do not make him sit on the toilet endlessly or make it into a big deal - it's so not worth it (short or long term).

I think op said her ds doesn't wear nappy to school.
I am reading with interest as we are struggling with ds too. Does do it most of the time but are still having some accidents.

My friends child is in y2, he still wears a nappy to bed.
Unless you tackle it, and actually toilet train your child, this will be your child in future....

My son did this for six months He had to make his own mind up. That happened when he started pre school. Your son will get there Is there anything he really wants? A day out to a cool theme park. Harry potter tour? Go karting, professional foot match. Or what ever he is into. Say if he can poo in the right place for 10 days you will take him? By the end of 10 days it will be sorted.

Pandemoniaa - at 18 months you would put them on the potty to begin with every 15 mins to 'catch' a wee or a poo, once they realise they can do it in the potty then they will then start to ask to go or just go off on their own, you wouldn't just rely permanently on 'catching' the wee. It took both my DSs about 3 days to actually go on their own but after that they were ok, took about 2 weeks to potty train them under 2 though so maybe a bit longer than a 3 year old but worth it for them to be out of nappies.

Readiness is generally acknowledging they know they have wee'd or poo'd in their nappy, being able to pull their clothes up and down themselves and being able to communicate well enough to let you know they need a wee etc.

Most people 30 years ago were potty trained at 18 months for 2 main reasons - cloth nappies took alot more work than dispoables and also most mums stayed at home so it was easier to stay in for a few days to concentrate on potty training. Many children are between 3-4 before coming out of nappies at all now.

Just to add - my friends DS is in year 2 and in nappies but this is down to a medical thing, it is really common for childrenup to 7 to wear night pants, you cannot train a child to not wet the bed if their brain is not sending the right signals, even lifting doesn't work. The GP will prescribe drugs at 7 to release the required hormone.

• sorry nappies at night!

Quint- It's seen as within the normal range to bed wet till seven. yr 2 is seven I believe.

My son was bladder trained at 2.3 but soiled till 2.9. It was a horrible six months so I totally empathise with people in this situation. It's not always black and White

Le queen. My son was in pants day one potty training I never put him back in nappies but he continued to soil for 6 more months. Lots of bleached training pants but he NEVER went into a nappy day time. We were very consistent