To still not understand Easter?

[Kayano]

I was raised a catholic and attended catholic school.
I got an A* in my RS GCSE because I had been bashed round the head with a bible for many years not because I tried

But although I get Easter. Crucifixtion, raised from the dead three days later...

Why does it MOVE?!

I'm sure I know this but now I am an adult and have finally said you know what? Bull I still don't understand why the date changes.

I mean. Jesus was born on one day (Christmas... Supposedly) 25th Dec

Presumably he died one day too... Why does it not stay the same date then? Jesus died this day... Blah blah april... Jesus last year might have died this day march... Blah blah

? Can someone explain it to me

Rhinos - so you think the timing of Easter being this weekend is not because it's Passover this weekend, but because it's based on the Pagan calendar and the celebration of rebirth. The fact that it's Passover this weekend and Mathews gospel states that Jesus went to Jeruselem to celebrate the Feast of Passover and was killed the day before (Friday) of the Feast of Passover is the coincidence. Or do you think the Middle Eastern religion of Judaism based one of their key religious festivals to be the same date as the religious festivals of Pagans in Britain? (rather a long way from Israel)

I have no problem with you saying Eggs and Bunnies come from pagan rituals, (mainly because they have no place in Church) but claiming the date is from Anglo-Saxon pagans is terribly dismissive of the Jewish background of Christianity.

Blimey, there're loads of Pagans on here...

I'm sorry if I'm being thick buy why does the date of Passover change? It, too, was an event so why isn't it on a specific date regardless of which calendar it's based on?

ben5 Glad I could help!

BelleDameSansMerci That's been explained numerous times and (at the top of the thread) I posted a link which explains it in detail. But to give you an answer, it's based on the old Jewish calendar which was a lunar calendar rather than Gregorian calendar. Because the dates on these calendars don't line up exactly, the date of passover moves from year to year.

Belledamesansmerci I've been googling and the Passover changes because it is based on the Jewish Calendar, not the Gregorian Calendar. The Passover is on the 15th day of Nisan, the first month in the Jewish Calendar. The Jewish calendar is a lunisolar calendar

I've learned a lot through this thread - thanks OP.

lydia pagan is a catch all term used to describe any religion that was prevalent prior to the current mainstream, particularly those that celebrated monotheism or nature/earth worship. It was not localised to Britain.

There is evidence of pagan religions all over the world, but one of the mainstays of these religions is their use of lunar and solar calendars.

Ask yourself; what came before Judaism?

SillyeardyDaddyman - I get that, except there was talk that it was replacing Eostre - which is Anglo-Saxon pagan festival. As I said, if people were arguing it replaced an Egyptian festival (what with Passover all being about the Jews escaping Egyptian slavery) I'd find that a far more convincing argument. But a replacing European pagan festivals, nope, not seeing how that can be argued without suggesting Easter isn't connected to Passover.

At 13.47 as vegimalstyle I explained how the Romans made a lot of the changes to create Christian festivals from their own existing ones. The Roman empire stretched from Portugal across Europe, the middle east, north Africa and beyond.

They installed their pagan belief system across their empire and then replaced it when emperors converted to Christianity. It's easy to do when you're in charge.

And that is how you have the same festival at the same time across the continents!

SillyBeardyDaddyman/Vegimalstyle - you seem to be missing the point, Easter wasn't just put there randomly, it is at this time of year because this is when Passover is, which is in the same point in the Jewish calendar it's always been and predates the Roman empire by a long way.

Unless you think the Roman empire changed the Jewish calendar (without actually changing it to their calendar), there can be no way it's timing has anything to do with early Roman Christians, or the pagan traditions in Western Europe at the time.

Easter isn't a 'minor' celebration, it's the point of Christianity, it's not something that's been fudged, or with little Biblical explaination, this weekend is very clearly detailed in all 4 gospels, more than any other point in Jesus' life.

Also, Passover isn't some small, unimportant date in the Jewish calendar, it's another 'big' event, there is a whole book of the Torah dedicated to the exodus, chapters detailing how the Jewish people should remember it and celebrate it, it's very prescribed and hard to change to fit in with local customs without rewriting whole chunks of Exodus.

Thank you worldgonecrazy and apologies ThisIs. I had skipped over the bits where the moving date of Easter was explained and hadn't realised you'd explained the Passover thing too.

Interesting thread! I've never heard the talk of Marys conception before - noted that some say it is in the apocaphra (sp) butt can anyone point me to a bible reference in the bible itself that mentions the "without original sin" element?

My apologies lydia I have been concentrating on the Romano/christian origins of easter and have as such ignored pesach at this point.

I just wanted to address the fact that paganism and Christianity were never the exclusive preserve of Britain or the Anglo Saxons and that the switchover between festivals from one to the other was as a result of the roman occupation of Europe and beyond.

My mum's a Jehovah's Witness and they are observing Memorial (their observation of the death of Jesus, but not a "celebration") tonight - I think!

tentative - I googled for references and found these which say Jesus was without sin

Hebrews 4:15, 'For we have as high priest, not one who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who has been tested in all respects like ourselves, but without sin'

1 Peter 2:22 - 'He committed no sin, nor was deception found in his mouth'

In some theology, that would mean Christ was conceived without sin, because they thought that this sin passed from parent to child (after all Eve's punishment is to bring forth children in pain, so original sin is - with charming misogyny bound up with human childbirth).

You've got to remember though, for the older Christian traditions, the Bible isn't the only source of theology or point of reference.

It's bound to be hard to decide on the birth and death dates of quasi-mythical beings.

Lydia It doesn't always move over the sabbath - I'm not sure where you got that from (other than Passover and Channukah are both festivals over a week long, like Sukkot, so have to have a Shabbat in there somewhere). It moves because the two calendars don't line up well as the Gregorian is a solar calendar with a leap day and Torah calendar is solar-lunar with a leap month. Passover always begins on the 15th of Nissan at nightfall (Torah days begin at nightfall). This year that happens to be a Shabbat, but that is not typical (next year it will be a Tuesday). Channukah always begins on the 25th of Kislev. The only holidays that actually move on the Torah calendar are fast days and they to not be Shabbat.

I had no idea that there was a school of thought that considered Mary to have been the product of an immaculate conception.

That school is the whole RC church.

LydiaWickham

I didn't mention the dates, just the symbols that have become somehow Christian when that is not their origin.

Easter used to be timed with Passover but it is now linked with when the cycle of the moon with particular Sundays in the year - sorry off hand I can't remmeberr exactly how - but it was changed so that it didn't happen with passover (although sometimes it does)

I agree it is the main Christian festival but there are discrepancies in the gospels, I think the date of the last supper changes - again can't remember off hand and don't have a bible but I think John gives a different date before pasover rather than at passover.