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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To still not understand Easter?

193 replies

Kayano · 04/04/2012 13:03

I was raised a catholic and attended catholic school.
I got an A* in my RS GCSE because I had been bashed round the head with a bible for many years not because I tried

But although I get Easter. Crucifixtion, raised from the dead three days later...

Why does it MOVE?!

I'm sure I know this but now I am an adult and have finally said you know what? Bull I still don't understand why the date changes.

I mean. Jesus was born on one day (Christmas... Supposedly) 25th Dec

Presumably he died one day too... Why does it not stay the same date then? Jesus died this day... Blah blah april... Jesus last year might have died this day march... Blah blah

? Can someone explain it to me

OP posts:

nickelhasababy · 04/04/2012 16:26

eh?

ethel, you said "what the hell is the annunciation then?"
or were you quoting?

Kladdkaka · 04/04/2012 16:28

@Kladdkaka and @Chil the people who taught you had their wires crossed or just didn't understand.

Or I wasn't paying any attention. You could be right there.

nickelhasababy · 04/04/2012 16:28

i think a lot of people don't understand the whole immaculate conception thing.

bad that Kladd was taught wrong in catechism!

Juggling - i was talking of "we" as being CofE, sorry should have made that clear.

DerbysKangaskhan · 04/04/2012 16:29

Sposh That does sound like fun (though a quill down there doesn't sound very pleasant. Eek.)

OP As other's have said, it's date was once connected to Passover (as the story is connected with it) so it moves about as Passover is a specific date on the Torah calendar - which is a sol-lunar calendar and very different from the sol only based Gregorian one we typically use here in the UK (not only because it's far more lunar based, it has leap months rather than days and days start at sunset rather than midnight which makes sense for a calendar built before clocks were very reliable). The two calendars don't line up well so dates measured on one "move around" compared to the other calendar. Using multiple calendar systems can cause some real issues.

But now the two have been disconnected (there have been years where Easter has been before Passover which really confused me) I don't know why it's still moved around other than for tradition's sake.

ethelb · 04/04/2012 16:30

I was being sarcastic. If the Immaculate Conception was Mary conceiving by the holy spirit (as people are suggesting here), then it would make the feast of the annunciation completely redundant surely.

But as their is a feast of the annuncaition then they must be wrong.

Right, i am off to find some CofE sunday school teachers to knock round the head with the catechism...

JugglingWithTangentialOranges · 04/04/2012 16:30

I don't want to upset anyone but that's pretty good going to remain a virgin all your life whilst having several children (mention of Jesus having brothers and sisters in the good book)

ThisIsANickname · 04/04/2012 16:33

JugglingWithTangentialOranges I don't know about anyone else, but I never thought she remained a virgin after marriage. Sex within marriage is encouraged by the church so I don't know why the idea would be that she remained a virgin.

Sposh · 04/04/2012 16:34

If the other children were immaculately conceived wouldn't they also be the direct children of god too? How come we don't hear much about them if that's the case?

ethelb · 04/04/2012 16:35

@ThisIs The perpetual virginitiy of Our Lady was a highly debated point inthe middle ages. That and how Adam and Eve had sex before the fall.

Plus, Mary wasn't married in the catholic church, it didn't exist yet.

fluffyanimal · 04/04/2012 16:36

Juggling, nobody teaches that Mary was a virgin all her life, only that she was a virgin when she conceived Jesus.

ethelb I think you are still misunderstanding (or others are) - the Immaculate Conception is the argument that Mary herself was conceived without sin, i.e. without the stain of original sin which all humans carry since the fall of Adam and Eve from the garden of Eden - so it's referring to Mary as an embryo if you like. I have to say, I had never heard that interpreted as meaning she also was the product of a virgin birth. But it's a pretty bollocks theological concept anyway, invented by Catholic Theologians who felt that a mere ordinary human woman with original sin could not possibly have been chosen to bear the Messiah. As far as I know, there's no scriptural basis for it.

ThisIsANickname · 04/04/2012 16:36

Ethelb my point was that I wouldn't understand why a church would deny that they'd had sex because, according to them, sex within marriage would be fine. Not that she was catholic.

ethelb · 04/04/2012 16:36

@Sposh, no becuase immaculatly conceived means to be conceived without orignial sin. It doesn't make you the messiah. Just the 'handmaiden of the lord'.

JugglingWithTangentialOranges · 04/04/2012 16:37

Again I think it's a Catholic thing - they always have to push credibility to the limit don't they - whereas of course everything the dear old C of Es believe you could easily digest before breakfast ( or something - some long lost quotation rattling round in the recesses of my brain there )

ethelb · 04/04/2012 16:37

@Fluffy no I am not. read my posts. I am one of the one's who has not got it the wrong way around!

Sposh · 04/04/2012 16:38

Is that a good thing, to be the handmaiden of the lord? Not sure I'm keen tbh.

Anyway, it's all tosh innit.

Chilenachica · 04/04/2012 16:38

ethelb

Thanks for clearing that up, that'll learn me not to listen to blokes in long robes. Even the SIL's ex BF never said it was Mary's conception. You'd think you could rely on a vicar to point these things out.

fluffyanimal · 04/04/2012 16:38

Ethelb - oh I see. this thread's moving too fast for me!

ethelb · 04/04/2012 16:39

@Sposh Mary was the handmaiden of the lord as she conceived Jeebus.

Sposh · 04/04/2012 16:41

Jeebus?

Be Jeebus. Arf.

Scorpette · 04/04/2012 16:50

Kladdkaka, I'm not the messiah, I'm a very naughty girl!

All the crap about Mary being a virgin when she got pg/being born of a virgin herself was only invented a few hundred years ago. It has only been part of the Jesus story for a relatively short period of time. People know this, right? The 'without sin' factor in Ye Olden Days just referred to the fact that she was a very young, innocent and sheltered virgin when she got married and Joseph her husband got her knocked up.

Although I'm saying that like it's the only improbable part of the story

ethelb · 04/04/2012 16:52

whaaat. who said she was born of a virgin?

Anna (her mother) was a pious, but normal jewish woman.

nickelhasababy · 04/04/2012 16:58

yep, got it.
sorry ethel (i'm not good with sarcasm! )

Scorpette · 04/04/2012 16:59

But the main point is that it's ridiculous, right? I mean, a woman's body can't create a male child because it contains zero XY material to make it from.

nickelhasababy · 04/04/2012 17:00

no, Mary didn't remain a virgin the rest of her life.

the bible clearly states that Joseph promised not to have "relations" with her until after Jesus was born.

Anna and Joachim were normal Jewish people as ethel says. It was just the conception of Mary that happened "without sin"

nickelhasababy · 04/04/2012 17:02

not if you have the holy spirit.

and people are overlooking the fact that it is physically possible to make a baby without having sex (sperms and naked peoples being close to each other)
but that theory doesn't take into account the holy spirit.

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