To still not understand Easter?

[Kayano]

I was raised a catholic and attended catholic school.
I got an A* in my RS GCSE because I had been bashed round the head with a bible for many years not because I tried

But although I get Easter. Crucifixtion, raised from the dead three days later...

Why does it MOVE?!

I'm sure I know this but now I am an adult and have finally said you know what? Bull I still don't understand why the date changes.

I mean. Jesus was born on one day (Christmas... Supposedly) 25th Dec

Presumably he died one day too... Why does it not stay the same date then? Jesus died this day... Blah blah april... Jesus last year might have died this day march... Blah blah

? Can someone explain it to me

We used to say

Eloy Eloy Lemon Slap my Fanny when talking about Easter at my all girls school

CrockoDuck, there is plenty of evidence Jesus of Nazareth, the historical figure existed - have a Google. Whether he was actually the son of God is another matter.

Personally I find Easter being all over the place a little inconvenient.

Kladdkaka, I'm not the messiah, I'm a very naughty girl!

Only the true messiah would deny her divinity!

I'm pretty sure that Jesus existed and that he was probably quite a nice guy with some good ideas about how society should behave.

Son of God? Not so much, and I reckon he would be horrified at organised religion through the ages.

You coud well be right about the people who taught me. Two vicar's, one vicar's wife doing sunday school, C of E primary school and RE teachers through secondary school. No guarantee that any of them knew how to get the info across. I'm not being sarcastic, it is entirely possible that they assumed the students should have understood without a full explanation. Quite a few of them were so enthusiastic about their subject they didn't have time to accommodate questions.

Kladdkaka, would you like to venerate my gourd?

(Worst euphemism ever)

this may have already been answered in this thread, but i couldn't be bothered reading through it all if it's not certain when jesus was born, why do we celebrate it on 25th december? was that date just picked randomly?

because the annunciation is on March 25 (catholic view)

because the bastard christians stole every shred of identity from the pagans and COPIED saternalia and made up some story about a stable (pagan/everyone else view)

because people need to party and eat stodge and nice food in the deep midwinter and the birth of christ is an important festival so you might as well put it then (my view)

ethel : I agree with your view and everyone else's (but not the Catholics, obviously). At least, I wouldn't say that Christians stole every shred of their identity from the pagans, but they certainly stole most of their ideas about how to party.

In fact, Easter is a much more significant Christian festival and maybe should have been the one to put in the party season, but the imagery works really well this way round. Mid-winter festivals are all about bringing the light in, and the birth-of-Jesus stories go on a lot about him being the light of the world, bringing light into the world, etc., because they were made up to fit around (or, er, depending on your viewpoint, were foretold by) the prophecies of Isaiah. Whereas the Easter story is sort of about rebirth, so fits better in the spring.

This has the effect that christmas is now the major Christian festival (except for those that care more about the religious significance than the party), because everyone has better things to do in spring than stay inside for days celebrating.

I don't really feel that easter is a celebration in the same way christmas is. it is a far more solemn feast. with celebration but also a lot of reflection and repentance.

The preparation involves more fasting than xmas, which only has fasting on xmas eve.

I agree with ethelb - Easter isn't a celebration entirely, it's serious, when all said and done, the main part is a man being betrayed by those he was closest to, being tortured and killed slowly (then yay, coming back on the sunday!). That's not very cheery/party-ish (except the Sunday bit).

Easter wasn't just 'put' at spring though, that's the point, it happened at Passover, it's recorded that Jesus went to Jeruselem for the feast of Passover, the symbolism people have put round it, eggs, bunnies, little chickens etc are what we have linked to the period, not really based on the Bible story.

If it weren't for the Synod of Whitby Easter might be celebrated on the same day each year in the UK...

Actually, got that wrong - it was about the correct calculation of when Easter should be but it does explain it.

The symbolism of the eggs, etc, is from a different faith. It's not just something that happens at the same time. I can never understand why it's ok to belittle the pagan elements of UK festivals. Why is that a less valid faith than Christianity?

Chilenachica, I wasn't looking for a fight, was just trying to explain (too briefly, obviously - sorry for that) that the Immaculate Conception refers to Mary's conception. As Nickel and others have explained upthread much better than I have. I'm really sorry if I came across as narky!

Seem to remember that when Bernadette had her visions at Lourdes, the 'lady' she saw referred to herself as 'the Immaculate Conception'. And the RC Church had only recently proclaimed officially that Mary was indeed the IC. So some people took this as proof that Bernadette's visions were genuine - otherwise how would a peasant girl know that expression?

Juggling: 'I don't want to upset anyone but that's pretty good going to remain a virgin all your life whilst having several children (mention of Jesus having brothers and sisters in the good book).' Ermm, I think this is one of those points where RCs and CofE diverge. RCs are taught that the 'brothers and sisters' mentioned in the Bible were actually 'cousins'. The word used in the original (Greek, I suppose) can mean either 'brothers and sisters' or 'cousins'. Apparently.

Disclaimer: I don't actually believe any of this. But it's what I was taught as an RC kid.

Princess

Don't worry, honestly, I didn't take offence. I was trying to make sure that my response wasn't misunderstood because it can so easily happen in these discussions. I didn't think you were being narky.

It's a pagan spring festival based on the new moon, like Holi etc. It was based on Passover which is also lunar based. Many Christian festival traditions are just syncretism with the older European pagan religions based on Cernunnus etc. It's still a standard tactic of churches to turn local festivals around the world into ones with a Christian meaning.

rhino I wouldn't bother. I tried to explain this earlier (having studied aspects of the history at university) using my other nn (vegimalstyle) but was ignored too. Apparently intelligent debate and history aren't welcome on this thread.

An annoying preachy religious guy WITH A BEARD was nailed to a cross and killed. The ideal thing to celebrate!

I am making no comment whatsoever about Noel Edmonds in case I get forced to meet him.

I know the DATES where made to link up with Pagan festivals but they are definately CHRISTIAN!

You really believe that?

Yule logs, trees with decorations, big party / family meal, snow, eggs, chicks, sacrificing a lamb - yeah all Christian.

Rhino have you read this Written by a very knowledgeable pagan.

There is also quite a bit in Ronald Hutton's book "Stations of the Sun" about why the myth of the Goddess Eostre is most likely just a myth. I don't have the book to hand at the moment but it all made sense when I read it.

One other prominent pagan (Frederic Lamond) has claimed that the reason the Vernal and Autumnal Equinoxes are celebrated by modern pagans is because it was two more excuses for parties. The very early Wiccans only celebrated the four Fire Festivals, and the Druids celebrated the Solstices and Equinoxes. Gerald Gardner decided to meld the two into the modern eight-spoke Wheel of the Year.

As others on this thread have already pointed out, Easter moves because it is based on the Passover, a Jewish feast. I do not know the history of why the Passover occurs when it does. The Passover celebrates the Angel of Death 'passing over' the houses of the Israelites in Egypt, as the Jewish God had told Moses that the Israelites had to mark their doors with the blood of a sacrificed lamb to ensure that the 10th and final plague, that of the death of the first born, would not come to their houses. Jesus, as a Jew, was celebrating this occasion with his disciples at the Last Supper.

Eggs are a very ancient custom - the Persians (previously Babylonia) celebrated the New Year with decorated eggs. This custom is still seen in modern day Zoroastrianism. As the Jews borrowed a fair amount of their customs from what we know of Ancient Babylon, it may be that the symbolism of the egg came via this route?