to be upset school taught my 4 year old about the crucifixion

[littlemslazybones]

It's a CoE school, so I knew that this would come up at some point.

But he's 4!! And he is understandably upset and a little confused that someone would be tortured and nailed to a cross. In the bath, he was pointing at the palm of his hand and saying "and mummy, they just hammered it in, right through here".

And if they are going to do it, shouldn't they attempt to do it in an age appropriate way? My son came home with the impression that the crucifixion was some elaborate terrifying naughty corner. He was telling me how, once nailed to the cross, Jesus decided to be good. (Even as an atheist, I'm baulking at the blasphemy). At the very least, they should allow them to ask questions afterwards, right?

I'm dreading what might come today. My Dad died this time last year and I don't want to spend the Easter hols explaining how people can not come back to life. AIBU to ask the school to be more gentle with this stuff?

WorraLiberty - I see what you're saying, but although those stories are potentially upsetting, there aren't any scenes of torture and if a child really is upset, you can say 'don't worry it's just a story, it didn't really happen'.

porca - I have no problem with kids being taught - this is vwhat some people believe. I do have a problem with - this is what is fact. Especially when parents have no choice of a school that doesn't do this.

was that directed at me bonfire? I dont agree that a 4 year old gets taught about crucufxon! brutal stuff. I just think religion is such a huge part of life that even if non religious there is no harm is having awareness of it

Worraliberty you are partly right. DS1 is not offended. He's upset, because he has ASD and is very, very literal, and this horror story was marketed to the class as literal truth. But he's not offended. I am, because my children were withdrawn from RE, and are still getting it constantly.

I would contend that they are not "bubble wrapped" as you put it - they've had all the stories you mention, in their original form. DS1 has been obsessed with Doctor Who since the age of two - not exactly age appropriate. However, we have always been very clear about the line between stories and truth. He has never, ever had trouble distinguishing the two before, ever (unlike his NT sister who believes in fairies, ). This is story being presented as literal fact by a trusted authority figure. Not presented as "the moral of the story is," it is "This is how it happened, and people who don't believe it are WRONG and BAD."

How the hell do you counter that without telling your children what to think? I constantly say "some people believe, it's OK to believe, you can choose what you want to believe" etc ad infinitum. But when that is countered by teachers using their legally sanction right to indoctrinate, it's a bitter pill to swallow.

What stuck with me with the Joan of Arc thing was that she was real and she really was burnt at the stake. Like Bonfire said - if it's an unrealistic story, you are cushioned from the impact.

True, but remember kids are also taught that not everyone believes in the same God/Religion.

Therefore, it's not presented to them as a fact either.

I'm just trying to work out if we as a nation have become more offended by people telling our kids these stories (religious or otherwise) or if our children are a lot more emotional than they were years ago?

Oooh cross posted with just about everyone then

exactly worra , exactly

CrunchyFrog Of course it would be presented as literal truth in a CofE school. It is literal truth in the minds of the religious. I have not yet met a Christian who believes that Jesus wasn't real or that he didn't die on the cross. It is the most fundamental aspect of Christianty - Jesus is your saviour.

You cannot believe it reasonable for a Christian school to teach Christian beliefs in a way that caters to people who don't believe them. That is absurd.

Maybe after the "video nasty" issue in the 1980s, people in their 30s and 40s with younger children are more conscious of the effect these images may have.
Whether they're right or wrong about this....I dunno. A lot depends on how sensitive your child is.

How many people over the last few hundred years have live with serious heebee jeebies after religious/fairy stories and not been able to talk about it as openly as we can now?

OP, whatever the rights and wrongs, your son is now upset and you have to help him make sense of this. Maybe the approach you could take is:

Yes, Jesus died on the cross which is very sad, but luckily because he was so special he came back to life anyway. Hurrah! And this means that when people like Grandad die he can take them to live with him in heaven etc etc

If Jesus is presented as some kind of superhero hopefully it will mitigate the horror of his death and also avoid any suggestion that anyone else can come back from the dead. Avoiding the resurrection means your son will miss out on the happy ending!

Agree with Worra that after grandmothers eaten by wolves, children/witches being put in ovens etc Jesus never seemed that big a deal. These days not even the bloomin Gruffalo gets a decent meal! Unless of course it was that our school handled the crucifixion so sensitively that I have no traumatic memories....?

ETA: By religious, I should specify that I mean Christian. Bad choice of words there. Sorry.

Thinking back, I have no memories of the crucifixion at school at all.

In fact - do you know what.....i had no idea about the easter story until i was in my teens.

Worra, it looks like you and your friends hadn't developed qualities of empathy or compassion. Personally, I don't see that as anything to boast about, and I'd actually prefer to have a child like the OP's who is sensitive to the suffering of others rather than one for whom it is water off a duck's back.

Oh, and please don't pretend it's a difference between "then" and "now". There have always been young children capable of empathy as well as ones who aren't.

LMAO, Porca you can't have that one. I eat easter eggs, damn right I do. Do you imagine that they're egg shaped because of the rock that was rolled away from Jesus' tomb? That's what DS1's teacher has told them!

Sex and death, eros and thanatos. That's all it is. Eggs are symbolic of new life, and really not exclusive to Christianity. But in any case, the delightful thing about being an atheist is that I can take what I like (chocolate, happy new life spring time) and ditch the rest (torture, death and patriarchy.)

The difference is, the children are taught about Chinese New Year and Ramadan (and in any case, they are not taught about these in all schools, in the Northern Ireland RE curriculum, other religions are not mentioned until Key Stage 3). They are not indoctrinated into them. They are expected to take part in collective worship. The parents can withdraw them, but the children are not legally able to withdraw themselves until the age of 16.

"In the bath, he was pointing at the palm of his hand and saying "and mummy, they just hammered it in, right through here"."

but hey didn't hammer it into the palm, it would have slipped right out again! ow.

they hammered it into the gap between the bones on his wrist, where it would have held fast.

I understand why a Christian school want to teach Christianity as fact. But many parents have no other school they can send their child to except a Christian school. So it is reasonable imo for both the Christian school to teach religion as fact and for the parent in this situation, to be unhappy about it.

TBH all schools should be secular with religion taught only as - some people believe this.

Tell him that they didn't put it through the hand because it if they had it would have slid through like butter, it's impossible.

Let's hope he'd leave it at that.

Thisisanickname even when said school is the only school in an area, so parents have no choice?

(Just to clarify, while the OP has, not through choice, sent her child to a CoE school, mine are at a non denominational school - but it's not secular, because there are no secular schools in the UK. So you are essentially insisting that Christianity ought to be taught as fact in every school in the UK barring the Islamic/ Jewish/ Sikh ones.)

Oh sorry nickel

The ridiculous thing is that he has a question for everything, so I wouldn't be surprised if works that out himself nickel.

My dd is in Y1 at a community school, and she has come home full of the Easter story. Which is fine. I am rather perturbed, though, by the level of detail about the violence: the beatings and the torment and the nails through the hands. I did kind of think they might serve up a Crucifixion-lite at this stage.

Agree with Lesley there. Thankfully, DS' school is pretty accommodating. The children that don't go to assembly are taken to a different room and watch videos or draw etc etc, but this is largely because there's so many of them.

Crucifixion-Lite!? Where the Romans use No More Nails?

Shelby, if I'd have been on the ball I would have said something like that to my son when my Dad died. In fact, I faltered, and told him what my Dad had told me when I was a child, which is that we all go back to stardust. And didn't that open a can of worms. I should have just given him a happy ending, I wish I did now.