would i be unreasonable to contact social services / nspcc ?

[shouldireport]

so as not to drip feed, i want to put as much info on my op as poss. so apologies if its long.

i have a friend with 2 dc. they are 5 YO and 6 months. she has a filthy house, i mean, floors caked with dust and filth, broken toys everywhere, old food left lying about. days and days worth of dirty pots all over the kitchen sides. random junk stacked up everywhere. the cooker, toaster, microwave etc is caked with brown filth. the whole house stinks as well as they never open the windows (or curtains). and the whole house is like it.

there are also 2 hamsters in a hamster cage in the kitchen ( ) that never gets cleaned out and stinks so bad of hamster-shit and wee, it honestly makes you gag when you walk in. (i actually feel sorry for the poor wee hamsters too :( )

i wish i could get across exactly how filthy the house is, its awful.

the 5 year old is always grubby and dirty, dirty hair and nails, clothes look very scruffy, too small for her, holes in clothes, shoes etc. the baby is better dressed but i think they may be still using all the new stuff they got for him when he was born. but he also is quite grubby, very long, dirty fingernails.

her bedroom is completely heartbreaking :( she has an old toddler bed just plonked in the middle of the room. no sheet or quilt or pillow. just a bare mattress and a grubby bare duvet, toddler size. not big enough for a five year old. her room is filled with crap, broken toys, clothes everywhere etc. and also dirty and dust-covered. there is no storage, her clothes etc are just strewn around the room. she regularly wets the bed as well.

she is also frightened of my friends P (not her real dad) he shouts at her all the time, calls her names and disciplines her by smacking her. and when my friend goes out without the dc (ie leaves them with her P) my friend tells her to stay in her bedroom until she gets back basically to keep her out of her P's way :( .

there is also an abusive situation going on with my friend and her P (he is mentally and financially abusive to her) but despite her coming to me and her other friends time and time again for advice, she won't do anything about it (ie kick him out) so to be honest my main concern now is for the dc, particularly the eldest but also now the baby is getting to a crawling age i dread to think of him crawling about in the dirt.

i think its probably the case that my friend is depressed and just not coping, and also her P does absolutely nothing round the house whatsoever, just leaves it all to her. he also wastes all their money (not that they have a lot, they are both on benefits) on gambling and stuff for himself. there is rarely enoough food or milk in the house.

i would hate the thought of her DC being taken away, i don't want that to happen to her, but i think something needs to be done. i know that the eldest DC's school has raised concerns as well. i am not nasty, i don't want to be malicious and i don't want to meddle, but i just have this horrible gut feeling it isn't right. and i am not the only one out of her friends. should i just stay out of it?

I posted about this before, but my mum lives like this. When my brother was small he was removed by ss, was put in temporary care with his nan while my mum sorted the house. As soon as the house was habitable he was allowed straight back. Sadly she continues to live like this.

Does your friend have any good family that would look after her dcs while she gets herself sorted out?

Call Social services today

Tomorrow might be better nothing is going to happen at ten past 5. Social Workers don't work 24 hours shifts, as much as Cameron would like it.

The other alternative is the out of hours emergency number and this is not an emergency (not serious neglect and abuse that needs to be dealt with pronto)

But you should deal give them a call first thing tomorrow, as this needs dealing with.

Please call Ss or as another poster suggests, her Hv, both she and the children clearly need support, they won't just dive in and take the kids but should put some supports in place. When you do speak to someone though make sure you give as much detail as possible, as others have pointed out it is the partners behaviour towards the little girl that is the deal breaker.

Have you rung them yet?

Poor kids.

I think that writing it down is sometimes the best way to see it all objectively. Of course these children need help from SS

The school may well have concerns. This could be the piece of information that gets some action

Have you reported them yet?

Call SS. It is not all about ripping the children away from their sobbing parents and it is unlikely that they will get "taken away" from her but it appears that they are, or could be "at risk".

They can help her get out of this cycle of despair and protect the kids from "neglect" and "exposure to harm" as this is what this is.

They can signpost her to help, health and and possibly some form of protection if she is willing to take their advice and help.

I would as your friend try and get the kids away, on a bit of a rouse.. even for lunch or their tea to fill their tummies .

It strikes me..what have we turned into if we turn away? Those of you who have grannies or even mums in the war and the fifties and sixties.. will probably know that friends and neighbours discreetly pulled together when something like this happened.

My mum used to do this to a family down our street who she knew were a not getting enough to eat, their dad had lost his job - (I know I will get flamed for being bloody middle class) -"how bout the kids pop round and play", and when they came she had shepherds pie and sponge and custard for them "hope you dont mind but the kids are staying for their teas" and a flannel for the faces and hands- this was the 70's mind... This is what happened before we became so namby pamby about getting involved (not you..OP..I mean as a society.

your=her

You'll probably have more joy calling the RSPCA out to look at the hamsters...

The abuse towards the children from the P is horrific in itself she clearly isnt going to protect her children someone has to. , I'd report

The P making the kids stay in the bedroom all night is horrific neglect abouse so he leaves a 5 year old to stay trapped all night in a rtoom, so he neglects the baby whilst shes out?

ok

i will do it tomorrow i promise

its such a sad situation. she was honestly a great mum before she got with this cocklodging loser. she is a shadow of her former self.

she has no family support as he has made her cut contact with her mum and her mum was really the only family she had

she also has hardly any support from friends as her P makes it difficult for us to see her without him there. and has also cut her off from some of them anyway. also as he keeps all the money to himself she can't get out and about on buses etc to see people :(

i feel bad i have left it so long. i didn't realise that they could assist with the domestic abuse element of it...another thing that worries me is her P is very good at putting on a "dad of the year" front and manipulating talking his way out of things.

We read many horror stories about the SS (Social Services) in this country, but I can say hand on heart that my experience of them has been mostly positive.

In the situation you describe, I doubt if anything the SS could do would be as bad for the children as the situation they currently find themselves in.

They may not know that, but it is nonetheless true.

I suggest you email what you wrote here to them (the SS).

I also suggest you put your name and details on the email otherwise it will not be treated as ''importantly'' as other complaints.

I say this last part as from experience the only people to make anonymous complaints are lying for there own twisted reasons.

If you have a concern for a child, put your name on it.

To ignore abuse and neglect is to be complicit.

Whoever mentioned pnd, absolutely no excuse for the downright abuse of this child.

another thing that worries me is her P is very good at putting on a "dad of the year" front and manipulating talking his way out of things.

He might well be but SS have ways of talking to the children that gets the info out of them that they need. So please don't worry about that too much. SS and the agencies involved know that abusive partners are excellent liars.

when you report it to SS let them know about how he will act so they are aware of it beforehand.

As re-report it it they dont act.

I spoke to somebody yesterday about reporting, a nurse just to get a feel for what was worthwhile and what wasn't.
In her words SS are up to their eyeballs and for quick action the HV has far more available time for those not in immediate danager so whilst I'm not suggesting SS are worth a phone call I would also follow up with a trip to the local surgery and talk to somebody face to face to get across the urgency of the situation.
Does this lady have any family support ?
Could you get a pair of rubber gloves on, buy her a pair and basically tell her to clean the place up ?

Could you contact her mother and her mother go around and give this woman a shake ?
My concern would be that this might be low priority.

i would most certainly contact the NSPCC - i have done so in the past and they sent someone around within 2 days.

this needs to be reported. she sounds like she is floundering and the children are being neglected and possibly from what you say abused physically by her partner.

do it today and dont mess about. you dont even have to give your name if you dont want to.

As someone else said upthread, You would be unreasonable not to report.

SS are there to help, not snatch kids away. It could well be the push she needs, and one day she may feel grateful toward the person who brought the help into her life.
Even if she doesn't, I'm sure her kids will.
And you'll sleep well.

OP, please remember that you do not have to assess the situation- let the professionals do that by reporting it to them.

If they do decide to remove the children, it will not be your fault, it will be the fault of those who have abused and neglected them.

However, as ENorma says, now you are aware of the situation, to ignore it is to be complicit.

Just to pick up on an earlier point from taxi:

"It strikes me..what have we turned into if we turn away? Those of you who have grannies or even mums in the war and the fifties and sixties.. will probably know that friends and neighbours discreetly pulled together when something like this happened.

My mum used to do this to a family down our street who she knew were a not getting enough to eat, their dad had lost his job - (I know I will get flamed for being bloody middle class) -"how bout the kids pop round and play", and when they came she had shepherds pie and sponge and custard for them "hope you dont mind but the kids are staying for their teas" and a flannel for the faces and hands- this was the 70's mind... This is what happened before we became so namby pamby about getting involved (not you..OP..I mean as a society."

This is, well, wrong. My dad was a Child Protection SW during the 60s and 70s. During this time he and his colleagues saw terrible cases of neglect and abuse, and removed children when necessary. Cases which were not solved by 'neighbours discreetly pulling together'.

Child abuse and neglect are not recent concepts, and there is nothing 'namby pamby' about removing children from harmful situations.

The neighbours can't deal with this, the man will stop them because if this woman got her act together she'd start looking at him with new opened eyes and he would be out on his ear. This will happen when the professionals become involved but it's too much for a neighbour to manage.

this sounds like too bigger situation for neighbours to deal with anyway. If i were to come across a situation like this in my work, i would be filling in referrals to social services with some urgency.

allowing children to live in squalor such as the op described is wrong and be assured OP, that for social services to remove children is absolutely a last resort, its easier to work with a family and keep them together than have to start looking for foster placements.

this mother sounds like she needs some help.