AIBU to believe smacking doesn't have to be part of disciplining your child?

[BulletProof]

DS is only 2, so I obviously am not that experienced in the trials and tribulations of raising children but I often hear parents are annoyed that the government has banned smacking as a form of discipline. I personally intend not to resort to smacking but what does everyone else think?

The thing that has caught my attention is people blaming the smacking ban for the London riots and lack of discipline in today's youth...

The SS (Social Services) asked me this question once.

I want to state first my children are a) 3 years and b) 19 months old and neither have ever been smacked.

I said yes I would smack my children (the question was '' is it ever acceptable to smack a child ?'')

WRONG ANSWER according to the SS.

I explained that I would not smack my children on a day to day basis, just if they had done something bad, (the example I used was if they had put one of our cats in the microwave and killed it).

This was not acceptable to them and I had to find it in myself to say that, No, I would never smack my children (I had a lack of choice, as you can imagine).

I still stand by my first answer though.

Tell a child a hundred times not to do something and they still do it is not worthy of a smack, but do something really bad one time and expect a slapped bum.

The punishment should fit the crime, more so with kids.

But hit a child in anger ? No way (though they do seem rather keen on it don't they !!)

And if the old bill had bought my kid home for rioting, they would rather be inside than at home with me.

Apparently you're not allowed to leave any redness and don't most smacks leave redness? Therefore it is a smacking ban really?

Don't leave any redness ?

Try smacking a Black kids arse and see if there is any redness..

(I have never smacked a black kids arse, but as it is black, it is hardly going to go red is it).

Stupid rules made by people far more intelligent than me....

I read that point in the article, so true...

If my son put the cat in the microwave and killed it (WTF?) I think the last thing I'd do would be to smack him... he'd either be utterly traumatised having had no idea what he was doing or I'd be trying desperately to work out where on earth I'd gone wrong and/or whether there was some kind of mental health issue there!

Technically, Bulletproof, but then most people who smack seem keen to impress that it's "just a tap" and more about the shock than anything else.

Plus unless your kid takes a photo of his bum and takes it into school the next day, how on earth would you be able to prove it wasn't just "reasonable chastisement"?

And of course the issue about dark vs fair skin. DP is so pale that if I lie on his chest it goes red, for ages.

If my child did anything as incredibly cruel as to deliberately put a cat in the microwave (frankly I think this is a very odd thing to even imagine your child doing) there is nothing I could do as punishment that would fit the crime. I would be seeking professional help though. I really don't think a smacked bum is going to do very much for psychopathic tendencies. I don't actually believe that smacking a child is ever a punishment that fits the crime, and I cannot see how you can hit anyone 'with love' (unless they enjoy being hit and have asked you to do so, and even then I'm uncomfortable)

Clearly it IS possible to smack (not HIT which to me implies hitting out) in love, because it was part of my childhood and I know many people who had the same experience. I also know people who still hate the fact they were smacked because it felt unfair, inconsistent, was done in anger or whatever. I'm am somewhat disturbed at the number of people who can't see that there is a distinction between the two situations.

To qualify the above, I'm still on the fence. I want to find other strategies that work, but IME what has made the difference to my 2yrold has been giving clear warnings, removing him from the situation and reminding him why he is in trouble and that next time it will be a smack. Then the next time it happens (rare), taking him out, telling him I love him too much to let him do abc because xyz, giving a smack (open hand on his hand - and yes it is a tap) and then cuddling him and telling him I love him all the time. Then I ask him why he was smacked and we talk about what he should do instead. Then we do something different to what he was doing before. He knows I hate smacking him. I'm careful to avoid backing either of us into a corner over something trivial, and if I do I'll whisk the situation round and apologise to him for being grumpy or whatever. But sometimes he needs this ultimate sanction. and STILL no-one has responded to say what they would do instead.

I want to know! DS2 is a really different character and I want strategies up my sleeve.

Can you honestly say that you felt love from your parents while they were smacking you? I don't think so, I think that is projecting how you feel as an adult onto your experiences as a child. If my partner were to smack me and say it was done out of love I would be gone, a child is unable to do that.

Smacking and hitting, to me, mean the exact same thing. Neither is more gentle or more aggressive than the other.

Rewarding positives has a good effect on children as well as having clear boundaries but allowing small amounts of freedom eg the choice of what activity they would like to do next. Tantrums should be ignored and the child allowed to calm down by themself, you can use the naughty step and distraction is best with a toddler. What behaviour are you smacking for?

Gentleness No one is telling you what they would do instead because it completely depends on the individual child and the whole situation, eg. is the child tired or hungry? But considering there are whole countries where smacking is banned I think it's safe to assume that parents can manage perfectly well without resorting to smacking. If you want some tips you could always watch super nanny or nanny 911. There are other punishments that can work just as well as smacking such as time outs or removing a favourite toy. Or some parents manage without imposing random punishments with a combination of removing the child from the situation, using logical consequences and talking to their children.

All I remember from being smacked was how unfair and unjust it was. I felt angry at my parents and wanted to get revenge, I certainly wasn't sorry anymore. I was rarely smacked and it was only when I had been very, deliberately naughty but I still felt like this afterwards.

I am 68 and was never smacked as a child. I smacked DS twice-once aged 8 for going off with a friend after school and not telling me. When he came home I first slapped his leg saying 'never never do that again!'then I sat on the stairs and cuddled him. This was a brand new friend and he had told the mother I wouldn't mind.
The second time he was 16 and we were in the car. He was deliberately winding his sister up with name calling and teasing-wouldnt stop when asked so I lashed out sideways and caught his cheek with my ring. He still flinches if I move my hand suddenly-he is 42 now!
DD I never smacked and none of the dgc are smacked either.

Gentleness I already answered, distraction with a toddler works well,they are small and portable you scoop them up and take them away, you blow raspberries , be silly, do whatever they find funny because they have the attention span of a gnat and they will have forgotten why you scooped them up in minutes.
Toddlers are little more than babies they don't link cause and effect so all they know is you hurt them they won't know why you hurt them because there is no visible link to their "wrongdoing"
I never had an ultimate sanction, I reacted to each situation as it happened but never once did I feel that a smack was a solution.
I think smacking before two leaves you with nowhere to go. Toddlers aren't deliberately naughty they are just hugely curious and unaware of dangers. How will you handle a child a few years older that knows how to press your buttons? Will you smack more often? harder? what will you do then?

Smacking in certain instances I'm not judgemental of, but I have a 2 yr old and I would think that is very young to be smacking them? He would be dp hurt and not really understand the logic... Maybe that's just my situation. I was thinking that smacking really applied to 5 and up... But I'm not an expert. In fact I think I hate the idea of resorting to smacking even more now. You can make a 2 yr old do want you want without hurting them, well it works in my situation. 5 yrs old they are stronger and if they do something dangerous I can kind of see the logic. 2 yrs old to me is wrong...

When I say, do what you want I mean physically prompt them but without fear or pain...

Gentleness I can't remember if it was you I answered or something else but as others have said, the way I deal with my child depends wholly on context. There is no "big final sanction" because that's just not how I choose to deal with things. If you want to give a hypothetical situation with context I'd be happy to discuss the way I'd deal with things.

I am curious though, people who do use an "ultimate sanction" - what would you do if for some reason that didn't work on one occasion?

TBH I always thought smacking wasn't that bad (although I choose not to do it) and about in the same vein as other "generic" punishments ie naughty step, grounding, removing toys/pocket money/privileges etc, but to actually witness it I find it shocking and it makes me feel extremely uncomfortable and awkward and like I don't want to be in the room. My dad and stepmum have young children and on one occasion we were there and one of them had done something really bad, my dad wanted to smack her but SM overrided saying it was unfair as it was a first offence and they had company - okay, whole other argument there about backing each other up, but the atmosphere in that house even though the decision had been taken not to smack took me right back to being little, I had completely forgotten how utterly terrifying it was when someone was in trouble (even if it wasn't me) and I decided then and there that I didn't want my child to experience that fear.

Plus I think I'd get lazy and end up using/threatening it for everything and I think that is unfair.

That is what I think *BertieBotts" especially when you hear about people actually calmly sitting down and explaining to their child why they are going to hit them.....I'm sorry but that makes me feel sick. What a horrible, horrible thing to do. It really upsets me. I remember my (otherwise lovely) parents doing that alot with my brothers and once or twice with me and I'm sorry, I adore them but I find it disgusting.

But how can one smack "with love"?

It's an action that usually inflicts pain, and can cause fear, distrust, anxiety and tension.

None of those sound loving to me.

(And I hate euphemisms for smacking - 'tapping', I mean just admit you smack your child. If it's really just a tap on the wrist it's not smacking and would be an action to get someone's attention rather than to punish them)

Why should children have different rights to those of adults? And even if they should, why should their rights be tailored to what is most convenient to adults?

People smack their kids because it's a quick, and easy, and lazy answer. They can't be bothered finding better solutions, there's no particular thought involved, and it usually gets results. That doesn't mean it's right.

As a child growing up in the 70's, I was used to seeing my contempories get a swift wallop for wrongdoings-but my own mother rarely smacked me. Maybe a handful of times and certainly not beyond age 7.

I smacked my DTS's now aged 23 rarely (usually for persistent wilful, destructive behaviour after many warnings/interventions) and whilst it hasn't caused them lasting damage-and I am not consumed with guilt, I have long wished I hadn't. IMO it has no place in modern parenting and there are other strategies. It's lazy parenting-my buttons had been pushed too far/I was angry-that was the nub of it.

I now have a DD aged 15 months. I am as sure as I can be, that I won't smack her. She is into absolutely everything! I remove her/distract her etc but find I can repeat "no" firmly and remove her repeatedly-til she gets bored. That, and/or ride out the inevitable screaming hab-dabs! It's time consuming and frustrating, but I'd rather employ these and reasoning/more sophisticated strategies as she gets older and understands more. The thought of slapping her little hand/leg when she won't stop what I don't want her to do, just feels so alien-and so wrong.

Insanity ...

Not sure what you say holds true for all toddlers. Mine is 2.9 and distraction is no solution whatsoever. This is a girl who can remember exactly what she had for lunch at her best friends party 6 months ago!

She is way too canny now to be distracted out of anything. Distraction worked when she was 12 - 18 months ish. At that point I never believed I would ever smack.

But the other day she repeatedly ran off, really knowing what she was doing, and despite umpteen warnings paid no attention whatsoever. Finally she ran off up a flight of 30 stairs in Boots and was on the verge of going into the street, shouting "I'm running away mum, I'm running away, ha ha!" meaning I had to abandon baby DS at the foot of the stairs and go to get her.

On the way up the stairs I decided enough was enough - she was endangering herself and her baby brother by default. So I smacked her once (through trousers). It didn't hurt her, it just gave her quite a shock. She behaved for the rest of the day.

Contrary to my expectations previously that I would feel awful if I ever smacked the children, I felt no guilt at all. In fact I think it was absolutely the right thing to do.

There were likely other options available though......
You could have after the 2nd warning for running off-removed DS from his buggy and strapped her in/threatened her with reins-you were in Boots so could have carried this through/taken her straight home-as "you can't behave". Then had a conversation about why she musn't run off and what will happen if she does on future trips out-eg buggy/reins/straight home. And be prepared to carry it through.

She may have stopped this time, but the chances are if she is inclined to be a "bolter" she will repeat-then what will you do-smack again/a bit harder to "reinforce" the point?

I would have done and have done as delicious suggests, there were other options and had you been better prepared she wouldn't have had the opportunity to bolt. Do you think mine were laidback easy children? I had 4 under the age of seven, I still managed all four out of the house, near roads, in shops etc without smacking ever. I have two with autism, some of their behaviours have been challenging to say the least was I ever tempted to smack? No because I believe it's wrong and there are always better ways. I wouldn't want you to feel guilty although I would, but please don't presume that because I haven't ever smacked mine must have been easy children because they were probably more challenging than yours tbh.

There's a lot of presuming going on all round. Presumptions that it is impossible to smack and still love your child. Presumption that smacking is always done out of laziness or temper. Presumption that parents who don't smack are more loving, more resourceful, more intelligent. Presumption that parents only need to smack because they are not better prepared. Presumptions that parents who smack are disgusting. Offensive presumptions in fact. It doesn't seem to me that this is the right place for me to find a genuine discussion of the pros and cons of different forms of discipline so I'm going to bow out of the thread.

First though, a quick thank you to insanity and bertiebotts for your practical replies. We do all the distraction stuff as well, and the naughty step, removing toys etc and it often works but like bumpsadaisy said, my son is fully capable of deliberately getting past all that (on rare occasions) because he has decided he is going to push the boundaries as far as he can. I know when he's doing that - it is written all over his face! And he's 2!

I need him to know those boundaries don't move because that is how he will stay safe, healthy and avoid hurting others. That is the kind of occasion I'm talking of in relation to an ultimate sanction. When it is absolutely rebellion. My thinking is that smacking is something I will ONLY use when he is little because as he grows more able to listen and reason and understand, we will be able to use sanctions more effectively. I was genuinely interested in hearing the way you do things and it was useful. It's a shame there is so much closedmindedness and offensive judging - otherwise it could have been a good source of tactics, though definitely in the wrong MN section!

Why should children have different rights to those of adults?

So by extension, voting, marriage, having sex and going to war must be extended to 2 year olds?

And even if they should, why should their rights be tailored to what is most convenient to adults?

Because those adults have to look after them? Because if it wasn't convenient they wouldn't?

Nobody said that parents who smack don't love their children but that love is not an emotion felt by the child at the time of the smacking. I stand by that, I don't believe that at the time of smacking a child is thinking how much the parent loves them. I do believe that parents who smack, not abuse, their children love them and that their children realise this. I think that this discussion has been very civilised actually and that you are probably feeling sensitive about the choices you've made.