AIBU to believe smacking doesn't have to be part of disciplining your child?

[BulletProof]

DS is only 2, so I obviously am not that experienced in the trials and tribulations of raising children but I often hear parents are annoyed that the government has banned smacking as a form of discipline. I personally intend not to resort to smacking but what does everyone else think?

The thing that has caught my attention is people blaming the smacking ban for the London riots and lack of discipline in today's youth...

Anyway, it seems either the majority don't smack or those that do, don't want to discuss it... There doesn't seem to be an overwhelming response of people saying they wish they could smack their kids but dont due to society or government guidelines, which is interesting.

The law says that you cannot smack with an implement, and you cannot leave marks.

I'm pretty sure anyone who complained on mumsnet that they were not allowed to do either of these things would end up more roasted than a roast dinner!

Fair point, I've seen it in the media, Facebook and twitter... Oh well, maybe it's a very small minority.

My children range in age from 25 to 9 and I haven't smacked any one of them. I was seen as some sort of liberal hippy with my eldest two as smacking was far more common then and amongst my friends I was in a minority of one.My children were never any worse behaved than others and were better behaved than quite a few tbh.
With my youngest smacking seems far less of the done thing, not sure why but don't think the law has anything to do with it more that it's no longer in vogue I suppose.
I don't judge but I do feel uncomfortable seeing a child smacked probably because I don't see the need for it tbh.
I was smacked once as a child and I remember it vividly, I don't remember the times I was told off or sent to my room though. I'm glad mine won't grow up remembering the times I smacked them though.

Insanity, your last sentence is how I feel. Anyway, thanks to everyone for your input.

Winkly Tue 27-Mar-12 21:06:16
"If an adult was about to be run over by a car or attacked by a vicious dog you could grab them or push them aside without it counting as assault."

Cory - yes - but you couldn't pick up a tantrumming adult and carry them out of the room because they were spoiling a birthday party, or force them to hold onto your hand in a supermarket so they didn't run away, etc etc."

True. I have to admit that I don't actually know the wording of the Swedish anti-smacking law; it seemed such a non-event when it was brought in to most of the people I knew, because smacking was already far off their radar.

Whatmeworry Tue 27-Mar-12 22:28:29
"I have noticed over the years that those most militant about anti-smacking are often also anti discipline overall (or don't have the courage, dunno) and have the nightmare kids....."

My experience is the opposite. I have noticed that those who do not smack, either on principle or because they live in a country where it is illegal, are often more into consistent, pro-active discipline, because they know they can't fall back on the lazy option of smacking.

As for those who blame the smacking ban in schools for the riots, they seem to have missed the fact that riots have occurred on a pretty regular basis, about once or twice in a decade, since the beginning of records. Or do they genuinely believe riots didn't happen in the 20th century? In the 19th? In the 18th?

What works to encourage obedience for a 2 or 3 year old then for non-smackers?

My experience is the opposite. I have noticed that those who do not smack, either on principle or because they live in a country where it is illegal, are often more into consistent, pro-active discipline, because they know they can't fall back on the lazy option of smacking.

Nah, militant anti smacking tends to be part of a belief set that also encompasses other parenting methods that guarantee PITA kids.

Btw, how come on MN is it assumed that if you are anti banning something you must therefore do it yourself, and all the time at that?

headinhands Tue 27-Mar-12 20:36:14

"I did the flinching thing too hectate. I used to think it was a normal reaction but I remember waving my arms around near my kids and seeing no reaction. Kinda brought it home that it wasn't instinct."

Me too, Head, they don't even blink. There's no connection in their mind between my big hand movement and pain for them. Like I had. It was a horrible feeling and I am so glad my children will never flinch from me.

You know, my dad once told me how sad it made him that I used to flinch

WELL YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE BLOODY HIT ME THEN, SHOULD YOU?!!!

Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking nightly beatings here!

in my own experience, smacking was about frustration. Looking back on it. It was a combination of a) I cannot think of any other way to get through to you, so I am going to hit you, because I think that pain will make you obey me and it's easier for me to hit you than to find a non violent way to teach you, and b) I am personally frustrated/had a bad day, so I am going to hit you for some supposed transgression - just because I can.

I hit my eldest son twice [ashamed] once when he was a baby and I was in the grip of pnd. I slapped his little leg when changing him - because I lost control. and once when he was older - again I was frustrated. I was unable to find any way to get through to him. The failure was mine - yet I hit him

He hit me back and I don't blame him. But it helped me to realise what it was that I was doing and the dangerous path I was headed down.

whatme - my children are not PITAs. They are lovely children, who are always praised on their good manners.

The most 'PITA' children I have known were those from chaotic backgrounds, where parental interactions appeared to oscilate from totally ignoring what they were doing to screaming abuse and hitting them. They were in general very unhappy children (I don't think the parents were very happy either to be honest).

I don't know any parents who advocate hitting their children. A fair few of us have once or twice hit out when we were at the end of our tether, and I think the collective feeling is of shame.

I think it is a sad indictment of parenthood if the only form of discipline you can think of for a 10 year old it to hit them. My 11 year old dd is currently grounded for getting home late. She is very contrite and I'm sure will be more careful another time. I woudln't dream of hitting her.

So Swedish children are all pains in the arse, and the way to get your child to hold your hand in the supermarket is to hit their hand first. I see.

Bollocks.

nooka that's my experience as well. My friend's children are nightmares and she insists she is very tough on them and they are smacked but there is no consistency. She will laugh at them one day for a thing she will smack them for another.If they aren't bothering her they can do what they like but then when she sees what they've done she'll smack. There are no routines, no firm boundaries, no consistent approach and no respect on either side.

nooka I totally understand what you are saying and though I haven't done so I can see that very occasionally a parent might do that in total frustration and then feel very regretful. It is actually the "using it as a parenting tool" that I find most disturbing.

whatme that is absolute rubbish and not borne out by evidence anecdotal or otherwise. I don't hit my own dd or the children that I teach and they are very well behaved indeed.

startail you actually sound like a very nice down to earth mum but I find it really strange that you thought you had impressed your friend by basically stating that your daughter did indeed do as she was told because she knew that if she didn't you would hit her. I would absolutely hate my DD to be fearful of that consequence. Also, how do you teach her that it is wrong to smack others if you smack her? "I'm allowed to hit you because I'm your mum/bigger than you"???????????

I don't agree with it generally being used as a parenting tool but I have smacked my children on the very rare occasion, twice each in fact.
I have 2 boisterous boys and it was the only way I could deal with very unruly behaviour at that particular time. It may be a failing on my own part but it did the job at the time.
It was partly because I was very angry and it was partly because I knew if they got a smack, they were very unlikely to repeat that behaviour as it would be a big deal.

Although they know where the boundaries lie now, it hasn't made them scared of me. If I hold my arm up, they're more likely to run into me for a cuddle than to flinch.

I was smacked as a child, and like MI, I have not forgiven my parents for this, and I don't think my siblings have either. I remember it as instances of my father venting uncontrollable anger, dressed up as discipline.

I don't smack my children. I have many ways of dealing with kids' behaviour (removing the All-Powerful TV is the sanction that works above all else in this house).

An amusing anecdote dd when she was three having never been smacked or seen any of her siblings smacked saw a mum smack her little girl in the supermarket. She rushed straight up wagging her finger and said "Naughty mumma smack a little girl, you need five minutes to think about what you've done, and now say sorry"
I was and the other mum was mortified

insanityscratching that is genius!

See, these different experiences are fascinating! I was smacked as a child, but I don't feel angry about it - it was always done calmly, a short time after the incident, after discussion, with love, never (that I remember) in a spurt of frustration or anger. It hurt, but not to leave a mark after a couple of minutes. And I always knew I had crossed a serious line because the rules were consistent. It was very, very rare - maybe 5 times once I was at school and the last time I was 11 and had been absolutely vile. There was a really clear framework for it, it was the last resort, and I knew it upset my parents to do it.

From talking to my Mum now I'm thinking through how to bring up my sons, there was more immediate, light smacks when I was a toddler and pushing boundaries and getting into danger.

It seems to me that the sort of smacking people are concerned about is instinctive, unrestrained hitting out in anger, inconsistent, and yes, that is abuse rather than discipline. Is that a fair reflection?

So, same question again, if you are not prepared to smack as your final sanction, what IS your strategy? I really do want to know - we're encountering the terrible twos!

For a toddler distraction is the best method I think, coupled with plenty of time free to run and climb in the garden at the park and lots of opportunities to get messy and make a mess in a controlled environment.Whispering, giggling tickling and being silly can all avert a tantrum. If a tantrum happens make sure they are safe and wait it out, let them know you understand they are cross, angry etc give them a hug when it's done and distract.

For my nine year old I ask her to sit on the chair and think about why I am not happy, if she understands and apologises it's finished with. Serious infringements would mean a loss of screen time but that very rarely happens tbh.

For my teens a grounding, removing internet access,removing their phones, extra chores, early curfew would all be options.

Mostly though I notice and praise all the positives and that seems to be enough as children just want attention at the end of the day and if they get more for being good than being bad then that's what they'll do IME.

YANBU but neither are parents who choose to use smacking as a form of discipline (by smacking I do not mean beating a child up!). I have smacked my daughter twice, once when she kept going to touch the cooker after being told many times not to because it's dangerous and once when she yanked her hand out of mine and ran into a bus lane. I would rather she is shocked by a smack then get burnt or run over. She has not done either of these things again. If you over smack then that's not good. I got smacked quite a lot when I was a child and it didn't work after a while. In normal situations of dicipline (i.e. not dangerous situations) it's probably better and more effective to use another form of discipline in my opinion.

I've never understood why people say that they only smack "from love." It makes no sense to me, I highly doubt that a child being smacked feels like it's being done out of love and I can only think that it must be a way for the parent to feel better about it.

My mum raised 4 children with different personalities who respond to different things and never hit any of us. We've all grown up to be fully-functioning non-rioting adults. I won't be hitting my children at all.

With regard to the riots I think a big issue is parents not disciplining at all or not disciplining consistently. A lot of the people involved will probably also have come from families where violence is commonplace and have a certain level of criminality in the family too.

BTW my unsmacked children are not nightmares. They are really rather nice, and quite gentle.

I've just remembered, the MP who caught my attention was David Lammy...
m.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/jan/29/labour-mp-backs-smacking-children?cat=society&type=article