MIL just had a rant down the phone at me - DD hasn't been wearing her brace and MIL thinks I should 'make' her.

[sandyballs]

How exactly do I 'make' an 11 year old wear a brace. Forcibly pin her down and shove it in?

Why does interfering MIL think it is that easy. 'Just make her, I would, just tell her and she should do it'.

I've tried bribing, begging, telling her horror stories about dodgy adult teeth.

I'm baffled that you find it odd.

I'm with the majority. At 11 they don't have a final say in medical decisions. And if the braces are being funded by the NHS then it is a medical decision - it's graded now and you have to be pretty bad to pass. DD2's teeth were pretty bad visually, but she still wasn't eligible for NHS braces

What do you do? You force them. Just as you would with any other necessary medical treatment. Gum disease is now linked to heart disease, it's not just for cosmetic reasons. Plus it means teeth can be cleaned effectively and cavities/tooth loss avoided.

Life is too short to be unhappy, and you can't force her. An overbite is mainly cosmetic as far as I can see. If she hates it as an adult, she has the option of working and paying for orthadontics herself. The result may not be as good, but 11 is a tough enough age as it is. I had expensive and painful orthodontics as an adult and I am unsure if I could have put up with the discomfort, inability to speak properly etc as a child

At age 11 I made all medical decisions for my kids. My son had eczema, he had to apply his creams if his skin flared up or I would do it. If either of them needed antibiotics (very rare) they had to take them, refusing wasn't an option. Luckily they are both fairly sensible, and also used to being firmly parented by both parents even though we are divorced.
I agree there is an optimum age for braces. It sounds as though this girl shouldn't have started on the braces route if she refuses to wear them and the parents aren't willing to enforce wearing them. A waste of NHS resourses.

I wore a brace for years - and hated every minute of it. I still have nightmares about my removeable one, and about them pulling out all my teeth when they took off the permanent one. they were painful, I couldn't eat or speak properly, stuff got stuck in them, the wires popped and went into my cheeks, as my teeth moved they pushed up against the hard plastic and caused infections. Wearing a brace is shit.

I know that you should try your best with DD to get her to wear hers - but I am at the lack of sympathy for your DD from some of the posters on here.

For people who say "you force them" - how do you suggest the Op does that, forcibly hold her DD down and shove it in? Stay with DD every minute of the day to make sure she's always wearing it? Yes it might be a "medical treatment", but it's a medical treatment which requires the cooperation of the child and "forcing" her to wear it isn't likely to gain her cooperation.

Well, she could always wait until late teens and have her jaws broken in surgery because the jaw blocks don't work at that age, like I did?

LeQ and Soup

I think you are missing my point: I already said if this is strictly medically necessary, it's a different story.

I grew up with a younger sister who had years of cancer treatment, so believe me, I know all about forcing a young child to take medicine they don't want to! One of my first Major Ethical Dilemmas in life, when I was in primary school, was whether to tell my mum that I knew DSis was hiding her pills behind the bookcase in our bedroom rather than taking them.....

However, a lot of people here bang on about 'It'll be worth it when she has straight teeth'.

Well, no. Straight teeth aren't the be-all and end-all. A person has a right to decide they don't want to conform to that image (again, I had voluntary ortho treatment so don't agree with that, but still). Also, often ortho treatment isn't successful: I was super-good about mine, but when my wisdom teeth came in all that good work was destroyed.

Also LeQ forgive me, but I am guessing you have not had braces yourself? Read gin's post above. It is not just 'a few weeks of discomfort'. It can be months or even a year or more of pain, where your teeth and whole head ache, where you feel too miserable to eat and talking hurts because your lips snag over the exposed metal on the brace. Mine was not that bad but I have scars on the inside of my mouth from where the brace wore away at my skin; drinking absolutely killed for weeks after it was fitted. I consented, but I cannot imagine visiting this on a child if they were adamant they didn't want it and it was not absolutely medically necessary.

Links with later heart disease etc are a red herring as this treatment can be done when the child is older, even if this isn't ideal, and there are lots of other ways to reduce risk of HD.

However, I accept I am in the minority. I strongly believe that you cannot force an 11yo to have a life-changing medical procedure they don't want. I really don't think it is the same as giving them Mars bars for tea if they ask. A painful, invasive procedure is different.

Seriously, if you thought your DD was sexually active - or just had painful periods - would you have her forcibly fitted with a coil? It might be medically helpful, but it is not like taking anti-Bs, imo.

/rant over/

My god that was long, sorry

Yes, an 11 year old has the foresight to decide she "doesn't want to conform to the image of straight teeth." Are you people for real?

No Ari, she has the right to decide that for her immediate future, IF the procedure isn't strictly medically necessary and IF she agrees to have a serious chat with the orthodontist and understand what she's missing. Yeah, that's for real. She can fund the treatment herself when she's 21 if she's so bloody desperate.

Mine refused to wear her retainer after a few months (at 13 as it was painful/annoying/embarrassing/she forgot) and they still gave her the train tracks and elastics - she will have better teeth if not perfect.

BTW, how the feck are you meant to make a child wear a removable brace when they are not with you?

And heart disease? Are you serious Stratters

?

Fizzy it is true that oral health is linked to more general, I believe inc heart disease tho' not a dr!

I love the idea that you all let your 11 year olds decide they can do whatever they want. Want to go out caked in makeup and dressed like a lap dancer? Yeah, sure, go for it... Dressing appropriately isn't medically necessary so who cares?

what relevance does that have soupdragon??

Eh Soup? SEriously I am not advocating parental leniency generally! I am saying in the case of a painful, invasive procedure I don't think a blanket statement of 'what I say goes' is appropriate. That's all.

I am actually surprised to find how controversial that is!

And no one has answered my Qs about forced gynae treatment for a DD of a similar age. Would you? Genuinely curious!

But genuinely SoupDragon, it's almost impossible to get a child to wear a brace if they don't want to. I've even seen determined teenagers cut the wires off fixed braces themselves!
A child has to see and understand the future value of the short term pain and inconvenience. If they can't see that, with the best will in the world you can't force them. Some children have a strong sense of their bodies and would do anything for straight teeth. Some don't see what is wrong with the way they look.
All the kid has to do is go 'Yeah, yeah, I wore it all day' having slipped it out the minute the mums back is turned at school. And it's not a teachers job to monitor this. All the Op can do is take the DD back to the orthodontist, be honest with how little compliance there is, and discuss this with them. The worst thing is is when treatment isn't progressing and you have parents and children sitting in front of you swearing blind they are being perfect. Sometimes if you get the child alone they admit they won't wear it at school. It's more common than we'd like.

And as for not wearing braces so you get heart disease - yes, good oral health is linked with things that see incredible now - birth problems, heart problems etc. But a crooked mouth does not automatically mean that there will be poor oral health. It does make it easier for the person to clean though.

Wow loads of replies, thank you all for responding. It's been an interesting read.

Firstly can I just say that DD certainly isn't allowed to 'do as she pleases', she does have firm parenting and is a lovely charming girl, most of the time.

I find it odd that some of you would think the fact that she doesn't wear her brace means she does what she wants, goes to bed when she likes, runs wild .

We are simply having a hard time getting her to wear this brace, that's all. And after reading this perhaps I do need to be firmer about it, I will certainly have a good chat with her tomorrow. It is painful, she has got ulcers from the short time she has worn it, it completely transforms her features and not in a good way as her chin is forced out, she dribbles, she can't talk properly, she can't eat, her jaw aches. It's absolutely horrible for anyone, let alone an 11 year old kid. She wore it to school on Friday and didn't say she was teased, just that it felt awful.

Her orthodontist was very abrupt and short with her, to the point where I am thinking of asking for another. I will then take her back to discuss it, or I might even pop her into our own local dentist who is lovely. I realise he isn't an orthodontist but having a chat with him might help, do you think?

Because it is so awful and painful for her, even though I'm aware of the long term benefits, I'm reluctant to 'punish' her. It just doesn't seem right to me, and I'm not the sort who is 'friends with their kids' as someone said. I am firm with both my DD's (she has a twin, who fortunately doesn't have these dental problems), and they are punished when they misbehave, but this doesn't seem like misbehaving to me. And reading the posts about people who had this forced on them as child reinforces that.

Sandy I do feel for you, and if your DD is anything like I am, she might feel her wishes are not being taken into account.

I remember really resenting some eye treatment I had to have because the dr spoke to my mum like I was invisible and poo-poo'd my fears about the risks.

If your ortho doesn't sympathise that your DD is in pain and explain clearly the benefits, then I can see she might buck. I think talking to the dentist and talking to her like she is a young adult with a serious responsibility to her own health is the way to go. Hopefully it will make a difference

No one likes being railroaded - just look at the grown up women on here complaining about rude/ insensitive/ uncaring HCPs!

It was a lot easier with my DSs-it was wired in and they couldn't get it out!

I agree that you need to be firm. Talk to her, otherwise in 10yrs you will be the ones she blames as in 'why didn't you make me?-you were the adult and I was only a DC'.

Orthodontists tend to be tough, when DS2 wasn't cleaning his properly I said that I couldn't make a 15 yr old. He just said to DS 'if you don't clean them your mother will do it for you'!
I actually bribed him with £5 if the orthodontist was happy with the cleaning. The orthodontist was pleased, so I admitted to bribery-he said he didn't care-it worked!
Is your bribe big enough?!

revolting (quite apt) i am rather perplexed at your repeated comparasion of this girl to a sexually active 11 year old..i mean why would you even think that up??...but to answer your revolting question..... if i thought my 11 yr old was sexually active NO i would not force the coil on her...I WOULD BLOODY WELL LOCK HER IN THE HOUSE! DO YOU THINK I WOULD CONTINUE TO LET HER GO OUT AND HAVE SEX?

NUTS..and painful periods are not something that cause long term medical problems...whereas dental problems can

dental treatment like this is important for eating and dental health..not just to look good (but an 11 year old is not so concerned with looks but that will change when the teenage years come and if she doesn't have the treatment will still suffer the same embarrassment as if she didn't have the treatment)
but to compare with other medical conditions:
if my child needed any sort of operation..i would make them have it
my own son needs to have 4 teeth removed...he refused to get it done as it involves general anaesthetic...i told him that he is getting it done because the alternative is potentially 2 years of dental pain, repeated infections and potnetial damage to adult teeth and no is not an option. we talked through the procedure and the reasons for it and he is now ok with it. He first thought that the dentist was going to attach his tooth to a string and then bang the door shut...then when the dentist said he was "going to be knocked out" he later told me he thought they would knock him out with a baseball bat and didn't realise he meant drugs...sometimes they just need to talk through their fears and will agree to it themselves (age dependant of course).

There is a reason why minors need parental consent for treatments..cos they are not capable of making a rational choice themselves

Hi, my 10 year old DD has twin block braces (the same as your child I believe) since just after Xmas.

The first week was hard going - she had 3 days with them part time in her mouth, not really able to talk or eat. She was then told she had to keep them in 24/7, which whilst very tough initially she did and the changes are amazing! She really does not notice them now and her face shape has changed so much in the few months - her teeth are almost aligned now :)

You know your child best. Is there a way to reason with her? Our orthodontist was great at getting DD on side - lots of before and after pictures, discussions of surgery in adult life and making her feel very proud of her brace. We also browsed the Internet together looking at before and after shots of twin blocks.

It is tough, but so worth it! You only have a certain timeframe whereby these braces work as the child grows - or else she is looking at much worse treatment.

Oh your poor DD Sandy. I had to have one of those block braces when I was a teenager and I know how painful and awkward they can be. However, get her to build up to wearing it all the time is the best advice and tell her from someone who had a seriously unaligned bite - it was and still is so worth it

I had mine for a year i think and then had train tracks which were considered 'cool' (they also tear up the inside if your mouth though) and finally a retainer to keep everything in place. It's a long road but she really will see the benefits and be so glad she did it - it sounds like she is just getting used to it all. Don't nag her, talk to her and tell MIL to talk to her directly would-be my advice.

I went from someone who was teased about buck teeth to someone who now has very straight teeth and near perfect alignment. People comment frequently about my straightness and my MIL has always said about my lovely teeth (only thing I get complemented on) I didn't wear it all the time straight away but my parents explained that to get the jaw/teeth I craved this is what i had to do. I am sure in time she will come round.

Has the orthodontist shown her lots of 'before' and 'after' pictures. My DSs are thrilled with the end results-it really is worth it.