AIBU to be a bit shocked at some of the reactions to CB cuts on MN?

[kickmewhenimdown]

Yes, it will be a bit crappy to lose CB but some of the suggestions/views by some mners are imo no better than people who fiddle tax credits?

'Less likely to want to pay tax'. lol.

So they're going to give up a 60k job and go to work as a shelf-stacker for a few quid cb? RIght.

moominsarescary removal of DLA is of course serious, but I'm not sure how you think slagging off people who pay the taxes that enable benefits to exist is going to help?

Accusing people who earn high wages of having gilded lives and being detached from reality is no different from accusing all those on benefits of being feckless idiots who spend all their money on gags and widescreen tvs. You know nothing about the detail of their lives, and whilst it obviously helps with many things having a slightly higher than average income doesn't shelter you from all of lifes problems.

'The problem is, not everyone with children is personally affected by the loss of DLA, but everyone with children is affected by the loss of CB. That's why it's caused such a huge outcry.'

Well they should be. Every single poster on here with a child could have a disabled child tomorrow. Sorry to be blunt but the loss of disability benefits does affect everyone.

"Such naivety here: it's like this: you cannot tax the filthy rich. They hire clever accountants that -legitimately but immorally imo- hide the money."

:o

Yah, sooo naive.

Whereas you are obviously totally clued in.

I mean, who would gain by getting the slightly dimwitted to believe that it is impossible to tax them?

:o

As a benefit claimant (for the first time ever), I can assure people I am receiving nothing like £26k and am in fact considerably worse off financially than when I was in part time work.

And thats even taking into account the DLA I receive for my son who is autistic.

I didn't earn £26k IN work and they are not suddenly giving me a payrise now I am out of work.

I suspect very few families will be affected by this £26k cap tbh.

"Sorry to be blunt but the loss of disability benefits does affect everyone."

Of course it does, but people who don't claim disability benefits are unlikely to understand them.

That does make it a harder sell in terms of getting people worked up.

I don't think (I hope) the majority don't care about disabled children losing out, it's that they are genuinely baffled by the entitlements, the needs, the means testing.

That said, I have seen and read a lot of commentary about the way disabled people are being disproportionately hit by the cuts.

Also, and I'm sure this was implied KalSkirta - even if I never have a disabled child, it still affects me if I live in a country that supports disabled children to live the best lives they can.

That, in some cases, will be support that is far beyond the means of most families (even the "gilded" top 10% of earners) and it is the very basis of social insurance that where a family needs to call on those resources that they are there for them.

I know what exists already is not what it should be, and I am very worried about further cuts to that. I believe that this cut to CB will make further cuts to benefits for disabled children easier to get away with.

Wamster, it's really very insulting to assume that sahp don't understand the value of money, or that we are all living lives of incredible luxury.

I have 4 dc and a husband whose earnings mean we will probably lose cb. By the time the mortgage and bills are paid, we really don't have loads left over. Yes, we are far better off than many, but we are not wealthy. I don't have 3 houses or holidays and my cb pays for things like school shoes.

Yes, it was my choice to sah, but I don't think I should be penalised for it - my husband is paying a shit load of tax, so is doing his fair share of contributing for our family. We should be able to do what we think is best for our family, without someone assuming I am clueless about the value of money.

I don't resent families where two earners bring in 49k each, but do think it is unfair that they will still be able to get cb, when we won't.

Those of you who think it is fine for hrt to lose cb, you do know that this is just the start and the time will come when no one gets it, because the principle of it has been eroded

"it's really very insulting to assume that sahp don't understand the value of money"

It's also deeply, deeply stupid.

I did AThing but said child spewed all over the floor before I could order my thoughts. Thank frig its sunny and stuff dries.

'Everyone paying HR tax should already be filling in a tax return. '

No they shouldn't. If your tax affairs are simple i.e. all your income is PAYE, then if you earn under £100k, you will not be sent an annual ITR.

I also entirely agree with Edith - the circumvention of the principle of independent taxation is important. My tax affairs are none of dh's business and vice versa. If this continues we will get back to the point of my refund not being processed because it may need to be offset against any potential underpayment dh has. Women fought to stop being chattels, and here you are, all rolling over and saying this is OK. It isn't.

Ah but Scary, as I know we are both in Belgium, here tax returns are done as a family unit. Women have an awful lot more chance of equal pay here than in the UK, simply because they have a lot more chance of full time work. Women are certainly not chattels of their husband, just because they are obliged to file their tax returns with their husbands / co-habitants (who can even be just friends or siblings with no relationship). The main person on the tax return, when it's a case of 2 people, is whoever earns more, could be man or woman - they get the tax breaks if children are involved.

The problem with all benefits in the UK is the fact that instead of means tested benefits allocated on a sliding scale, you get these areas of income which many families fall in to who just miss out on a certain benefit which puts them worse off that those with a tiny bit less income who end up better off. WTC is a classic and CB will end up the same way. For example, a family with 4 children with one working parent just over the 42k gross yearly income is set to be quite a few KKs worse off that a family of 4 with one working parent just under the 42k gross income. Because the changes in CB are NOT taking into account complete family income in many cases, it starts off as an unfair benefit. In Belgium, everyone gets CB, it is seen not as a benefit but a tax break, irrelevant the family income.

scary really I thought they had to because things like bank interest are only taxed at basic rate at source and depending on how the contribution is paid you may not be getting the correct amount of relief on your pension contribution?

"KalSkirata Sat 24-Mar-12 09:45:06
'The problem is, not everyone with children is personally affected by the loss of DLA, but everyone with children is affected by the loss of CB. That's why it's caused such a huge outcry.'

Well they should be. Every single poster on here with a child could have a disabled child tomorrow. Sorry to be blunt but the loss of disability benefits does affect everyone."

well said, sadly people think it only happens to someone else.

Wamster good for you that you won't be having sleepless nights but I can't see how anyone can see that it's right to take away CB from families with a sahp and a partner earning £60k and not families where both parents work and have a family income greater than £60k. Sometimes being a sahp is the best and only option for a family and we're being penalised for that.

Birds, your 'indignation' is sooo pc - and 'whatever'. I haven't got a problem with what I said and if you take issue I'm really not bothered

Wamster - your insults to sahm are so ignorant and silly that it would be a waste of energy to even care about what you say!

TFO - a couple of years ago, dh's ITR didn't turn up, and we rang to point this out. Despite living in Belgium, dh is HM Forces, so UK tax and a UK ITR, as is mine. We were told precisely that, if straightforward tax (PAYE) and no complex savings/pension arrangements, those HRTs who earned under £100k wouldn't get an ITR each year. By then we let out our house in UK, so we still have to fill one in for him.

Natation, I only complete a Belgian ITR to say no Belgian income and sign it. The point really here is that we have never had a system like the Belgian one, and one is individually taxed in UK on one's income. The cb is counted as my income, not dh's, so if anyone should have a charge on it, it is me, and my tax free allowance would cover it. It is breaking the principle of independent taxation to charge the person whose tax rate is higher, rather than the person who receives the CB if that is different.

I too am a bit disgused at the sweeping statements made about sahp.
I am not one btw.
They do a fantastic job of raising their children why do people think it ok to slate them?
I think you may actually find that sahp are consistently found to be the best thing for a child.

I am not slating working parents at all, but somebody please show me actual facts that state that having 2 parents, one who works and one who stays at home to look after the children, is indeed damaging to children.
Not all sahp are lording it about ordering the nanny/cook/cleaner/gardener about whilst thay simply live a life of luxury. Many would love a part time or full time job but instaed stay at home, unpaid, for the sake of theeir family.

So wamster SAHM'S don't know the value of money. Wonder how I managed to run a home, pay a mortgage on my own before I met DH and had our dc.

I am also hugely insulted by the idea that my lifestyle is being subsidised by "Taxpayers" Correction I am being supported by the father of my children. He appreciates the work I do looking after our children and home and enabling him to leave house at 6am and return at silly o'clock in the evening.

DH has only recently hit the 60k salary figure so we will lose Child Benefit. We will cope.

As much as we may be moaning at the unfairness of taking away CB most of those on this thread seem to have good salaries. Loosing CB isn't going to push us into poverty or see us go without a hot dinner. There are plenty of parents working their socks off to make ends meet who can only dream of a job that pays anywhere near £49k.

I tried to keep out of this thread for as long as possible because it seems a bit selfish to be moaning about a loss of such relative little considering our household income but just couldn't resist responding to the digs at Sahp's.

you are right naturalbaby. Those on under 17K will be losing the WTC of nearly 3K if they cannot up their hours to 24. Now many work part time either because they care or because there simply arent extra hours. But they will lose WTC which makes the loss of CB to the well off as small beans. Families with disabled kids (generally low income) will be losing over 2K as the disability element of CTC is halved.
And yet MN is awash with those on large salaries complaining about CB.
I think some people need to realise how lucky they are to be in the top 10%. Yes the 2 income thing is stupid and unfair but what else did you expect from a Tory Govt?