To be really upset to read on MN

[shootingstarz]

That parents are going without food because they can?t afford to feed their kids.

processed food fast food etc cheaper than fresh foods but higher in calories. people on very tight budgets sometimes can't afford fresh food.

e.g: i was able to buy several pasta meals that served 1 for 5p each from the whoopsie shelf. i am used to very small servings and my dcs dont eat big portions so one meal actually fed the 3 of us. i wouldn't blame anyone else in similar circs for stocking up on these meals when they are reduced so low.

I find it quite odd that people seem to think that talking about poverty 50years ago is somehow competitive poverty.

No, it is shocking that in 50 years we have come round to that state again. That in that time we have not managed to build a society where food banks were unnecessary. That in 50 years our society has not ever managed to ensure that no one in this country ever has to go without food.

I am sickened by the number of threads on this site - this site which I love as I too am isolated - which complain about people on benefits, complain about having to pay tax, complain because the tax rate for people earning sums of money which many of us would probably not be able to earn in a lifetime, went up. I am sickened by a society where a government would even consider lowering the tax rate for those earning over 100,000K when there are food banks all over the place which are necessary.

Grace do you think only poor people are fat?

I like the fact that this thread started off talking about those who are sacrificing their meals in order for their children to eat and has, inevitably, veered into the usual shit about the feckless poor and their Internet loving ways.

How would you like to have to choose between having an evening meal or having access to the Internet so your children could complete their homework?

I bulk up meals with pasta and rice. They fill you up more and are in relative terms more fattening. Sometimes I'll eat biscuits because I can buy a packet of cheap ones for 37p eat 2 instead of a meal and that also saves on power for cooking. My stomach was rumbling when I went to bed last night because Dh and I had no dinner or breakfast yesterday.

Tell me Grace where do you grow veg when you live in a flat?

I am out of work and on benefits.

I have the internet etc BUT am tied into an 18 month contract so even if I wanted to ditch it I couldn't.

I am about to have my first ever month on benefits and tbh am worrying about how we will manage financially.

I run a car (old banger which cost me the princely sum of £250)so have petrol costs.
I have BT internet,phone and TV with 14 months of contract still to go.
I don't anticipate going hungry because I can make a budget go a long way and cook from scratch.
I have a mobile phone with 6 months of contract still to go.

So sometimes people on benefits will have things that people might consider luxuries but they might not be able to do much about this if they took out contracts etc when in work.

Good point cod.

Lol - it'll be very interesting to see if I can maintain these contracts on benefits. Have never been on full benefits before.....

Then again my son is autistic so I do get DLA for him which pays for the phone so I am contactable if needed. This obviously means I will be better off than most on benefits but still not as well off as in work.

I am fortunate enough to have been offered some ad-hoc work though which might lead to something else more permanent.

I am with you, Jux. I fail to understand why collectively we are prepared to tolerate this kind of poverty.

Because Boffin.... fixing it might mean taking money away from me. I've worked really hard to get where I am. I've made good decisions and reached a point where I deserve this life. Taking my money away and redistributing wealth to people who are poor through their own bad decisions is not fair

Possibly?

The thing is society has moved on from the situation where 'feckless' parents spending all their money on fags and drink have children not eating properly is the problem. It's not - it's working parents trapped in a cycle of poverty with no hope of change. Minimum wage is too minimum for todays spiralling cost of living. It no longer adds up.

I hate the way people always assume the government will always provide enough to live on. When I was pg with dd I had taken a year out of uni and was living with dp who was working full-time, albeit on minimum wage. Because he was working full time and because technically we had no child yet I was entitled to nothing. There was no way do's wage covered the cost if us living in a modest 2 bed in a cheap area. It was incredibly difficult for me to get a job as I was visibly pregnant, but by some miracle I did get a temp role and worked full time up until the day before my elcs. If noone had given me a job we couldn't have afforded food. And if I hadn't got that job I wouldn't have been entitled to maternity allowance so would have gone hungry after her birth too. The gov aren't always so good at looking after everyone.

...plus lack of jobs and employment with a future

I have come to the conclusion that there are people in the UK today who want the poor to suffer. Some seem to want them to suffer more. It seems to satisfy some need in them for someone to be punished and the poor are a prime target.. There is a belief system that feels the poor deserve it because they are scum who brought it upon themselves by being lazy, stupid, uneducated, entitled etc. They are in some way sub human.

I think the government encourage this attitude with their propaganda, it suits them.

NameinChalk - I noticed that, too.. a huge leap from the original topic of parents going without so children could eat to rules about what constitutes poverty.

I am a parent who regularly goes without as part of budgeting, but I don't consider myself poverty-stricken. We have a home, utilities and the children have good care and education.

I work - and love my work - I just don't happen to pull in enough for a weekly grocery shop on top of everything else.

And for those who are so fixated on the failings of the sometimes-hungry, I am slim, I don't smoke, don't drink and don't gamble. Our TV died a year ago but we are fine without one. (no flat-screen anything here. Oh, no iPod, iPad or Ianythingelse).

Employers provide a uniform which saves worry about work clothes, a laptop, phone and net access.

As to the comments about the poor needing "better education and budgeting skills" well frankly I think it's those making such staggeringly crass generalisations who need the education.

The food thing - I grow some vegetables and make a lot from scratch and we are definitely healthy. And very aware that there are so many worse off. One of our offices is in a very poor area and every time I visit there I am left wondering how on earth they survive at all.

People need to realise that there are people who have worked hard, made the best decisions they could with the information they had at the time of making that decision. Yet they have still been chucked on the scrap heap.

It is wrong to assume that every poor person has brought it on themselves. I'll concede it is not a nice thought but it is a fact, poverty can happen to anyone.

My dds are 6 and 3.5months, please tell me what they did to deserve it?

Nobody on this thread has said that the poor deserve it.

As for the change of topic, that happens on all threads. It's totally natural that on a thread about poverty, there will be discussion about the causes, possible solutions etc.

I am poor, but I am educated, medical student in fact. My parents are also middle class, but unfortunately don't have oodles of spare cash so can't support me/bail me out like others might. It's very easy to never be poor if you come from a rich background. It's also very easy never to be rich if you're from a poor background. My poorest time as I mentioned was taking a year out of uni to have a baby who wasn't planned. Yes very poor decision on my part. Perhaps I should have been forced to have a termination, or better still just sterilised on the spot? And yes. I was using contraception that failed without my knowledge.

Although I don't want everyone to experience struggling I think everyone would benefit from taking a minute to consider how they would feel if they were having to live like that.

I am not lazy, I do not spend money on drink, cigarettes or drugs, I am not completely uneducated. I am am a human being who is doing her best in the circumstances she finds herself in. So please please please at least have an ounce of empathy and have the decency to stop suggesting I am stupid and/or feckless. Existing like this is depressing and humiliating enough without 'perfect' people sticking the metaphorical boot in.

It wasn't a thread about poverty Morris, that was exactly my point. It was about parents going without food.

My comment about people blaming the poor is not solely based on this thread.. Incidently people on this thread have made comments implying it is the fault of the poor.

When people say 'but I have worked hard' it implies. Someone said 'redistributing wealth to people who are poor through their own bad decisions isn't fair' If that isn't blaming the poor what is?

Hecubasdaughter - People need to realise that there are people who have worked hard, made the best decisions they could with the information they had at the time of making that decision.

But in order for that to happen, people would have to face up to the fact it could happen to them which is a very frightening prospect. It is far more comfortable for them to adopt a blame mentality. Poor-bashing is like homophobia, xenophobia, all those phobias, it's all about the insecurity of the attacker and nothing to do with the poor.

Yes but poverty is the reason that people are doing without food.

Sorry tread, I can't see the distinction.

But even on those terms of course the convo is going to turn to why, and what can be done about it.

It was me who first mentioned smoking, bingo, etc and I certainly didn't say anybody here did that. I said it in response to a discussion of food vouchers. I don't for a minute imagine that all poor people smoke etc, I have personal experience to the contrary.

I have read the whole of this thread and am sitting here in tears of rage. Not with anyone's posts or attitude: of course people find it hard to believe that such poverty exists here in the UK in 2012 - it's fucking unbelievable! (By which I mean shocking, disgraceful, an indictment.)

I read a post earlier that said that some of the poster's acquaintances were coping better on benefits than some of the situations described here. All I can say is: good. Thank fuck for that. That's what is supposed to happen. We, as a society with one of the finest economies in the world, present difficulties notwithstanding, should not suffer people to do without to the extend that we clearly are.

I'm very sorry that so many of you have felt that you had to itemise your spending to a bunch of strangers to provide evidence for a truth that many of us who are not in the same situation should have recognised sooner. I, for one, am grateful that you have done it - you've opened my eyes.

I've always considered myself a compassionate leftie, but realise now that I have done precious little to live up to those principles - certainly not enough. I'm going to find out what I can do locally to support foodbanks and so on.

I work in a school in a fairly affluent area that has just become an academy (grrr, but that's a side issue). One of the spin offs of that decision is that the school is no longer required to live up to the 'healthy schools' standards set by the last government, so school dinners, which used to be fantastic value, healthy, balanced meals, are now back to chips, pizza, sausage rolls etc. If there are pupils whose main meal of the day comes from school, our school (which is generally a really caring and positive place) has just given those children a massive kicking. Those shitty dinners aren't even cheaper. I'm going to start making a big fuss on Monday to see if I can't get it changed.

What else can we do? We must be able to come up with more ideas together.

poor bashing may say more about the attacker than the victim but really it is the poor person who suffers more in mental terms.

People keep going on about fairness on this thread. I have no life, no future and can't offer my DDs a future. So I think in terms of fairness people should be able to muster enough empathy to avoid making comments which basically mean hah! you deserve it, it's your own fault.