To be really upset to read on MN

[shootingstarz]

That parents are going without food because they can?t afford to feed their kids.

Hecuba, I'm really sorry you are in such a crappy place, but you definitely can offer your kids a future. That much I do know.

Kids succeed when their parents engage with them, encourage them and stimulate them. Sure, money helps. Of course it does. But so many people come from low income backgrounds and have very successful lives - in every sense.

My parents did it, and to a lesser extent I did it too. Your kids are privileged in that they have an articulate, engaged mother who cares deeply for their welfare and education. That's the hard part - the rest is a bonus.

Easy for me to say, yes. But no less true for that.

I have started a new thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1435593-to-ask-all-the-skint-and-struggling-people-what-would-help-you-the-most

As notnow says, we should be able to come up with more ideas to help each other!

There have been a lot of good ideas on this thread, I thought it would be nice to have a new thread to focus on things we can try to do about this.

It would be great to hear from people who are struggling what would really help them out the most right now. Poverty is such a huge problem, maybe it makes sense to prioritise our efforts?

Hecubasdaughter Sat 24-Mar-12 09:12:38

My comment about people blaming the poor is not solely based on this thread.. Incidently people on this thread have made comments implying it is the fault of the poor.

When people say 'but I have worked hard' it implies. Someone said 'redistributing wealth to people who are poor through their own bad decisions isn't fair' If that isn't blaming the poor what is?

You are quoting me here but my words were a surmising of how people might view things...not my personal view.

Can I also say...

I can see that's it dispiriting to hear the same old moans about smoking and plasma tellies when the subject of poverty comes up. Some people have indeed swallowed the DM whole, and truly believe that's the reality of it.

But it is partly the reality, DM or not. I'm a dyed in the wool Guardian reader but I know about the 'feckless poor' (horrid term) through my own life, and particularly that of my friends.

I have lots of friends and family members who work in education, mental health, social services etc. Every one them has countless heartbreaking/ hair raising stories about how some of their patients/ clients/ pupils live.

These stories are not made up, and they tell of a whole world of deprivation where the parents completely lack the skills for the job, and the kids suffer as a consequence.

Many people will not have friends or aquaintances who live in the conditions described on this thread, so they don't see it. But they do see people drinking, smoking, feeding their kids coke and McDonald's etc and that forms their view of what poverty is.

For right or wrong, those people are voters and taxpayers, and their voices count too. If they think 'why should my taxes pay for a family of 6 whose kids all sleep in one room so the three pitbulls can have a room of their own' (to cite one real example I know of) then that is fair enough. I don't want to subside that family either.

Those examples are extreme, and only a part of the picture. But to deny they exist is no more blinkered that denying that real poverty exists.

Between last night and this morning, I've read through this entire thread and it's brought me to tears.

I'm so ashamed to say that I just wasn't aware of how bad things are for some people.

The things I've read have stunned me; I knew that some people's financial circumstances were bad but I just didn't realise how many people struggle so terribly to feed their families.

I myself had a shit upbringing - money was tight and my parents were pretty feckless and uncaring but we always ate and, as far as I'm aware, so did my parents. I wrongly assumed that because we managed as a family with crap parents then anyone who couldn't manage must be doing something wrong.

Hecubas, your description of the circumstances your family is in has really hit home with me. Your daughters are so very lucky to have someone like you as their mum.

I've now made a financial donation to FareShare via their website and will do so again but I feel guilty that I've just taken the 'easy' option to appease my own conscience.

I hope this thread highlights the great job food banks are doing and ups the donations

A utility bill that's higher than expected.

Being a homeowner on benefits (HB doesn't cover all the mortgage).

Kid wrecks school shoes or loses expensive uniform item or has a trip.

Household appliance breaks down or a pipe springs a leak needing repair.

Transport costs go up, but no extra comes in the pay packet to cover it.

I was shocked at the cost of a cab to get my child to A&E recently.

Low wages/benefits cover the essentials week in/ week out. There is nothing left over for lifes unexpected blips. You know you should have a few hundred put aside for the inevitable "rainy day" but have NO spare disposable income to make provision.

Food stamps would make this existence even harder as it would remove the "juggling" ability many who live on a low income use. Markets, places like approved foods, buying seeds instead of vegetables - all these sorts of tricks would be removed from the struggling poverty stricken Mum's arsenal & te result in real terms would be increased profits for tescos and less food on Mum's table. It would make the better off feel more "in control" of the poor.

There is still an attitude that either real poverty can't exist because of our extorionate tax rates or that the poor must somehow deserve it. If that translated into real political action re helping instead of punishing the disabled, making childcare affordable, ensuring the legion of parents who abandon their kids and never pay a penny are made accountable etc it would all help alleviate poverty. Instead of that we sit back while the numbers of elderly who die of hypothermia every winter continues to rise without fail.

There are a LOT of holes in our welfare net and too many people are totally ignorant of that fact until the day it happens to them.

Shellyboobs, I feel exactly the same. I've set up a DD to the Trussell Trust, which someone highlighted earlier on the thread, but it does make me feel guilty. Guilty because I'm in a situation to set up a direct debit without really thinking too much about it for an amount that so many people are trying to feed their children on for a week. The thing is, no matter how brilliant a job foodbanks are doing - and they really are - there are lots of people who wouldn't consider going to them and who are struggling even so. I haven't got over being furious and tearful yet. At least now I know how lucky I am.

bochead If anything this thread has highlighted the fact that a lot of people are only one pay day away from destitution.

In the Western europe. In the 21st century.

Its deeply sobering.

What a horrifying thread this is. So :( that so many people are still in this trap and it's only likely to get worse now, with the Govt's new strategies

One thing that crossed my mind, that I haven't seen mentioned here yet (and I'm not exactly defending the practice, just offering a potential explanation) - smoking depresses the appetite. Chocolate is also a very good emergency ration food, which is why it is in the Army's ration packs. Neither are good as long term measures, nor for spending your last pennies on instead of real food - but a chocolate bar can keep you going all day; and smoking may stop you wanting to eat.
So - while it doesn't justify the expenditure, it might help explain it a little bit in some cases.

Sorry, that should have been 'Govt's new "strategies" ' - the speech marks are important to explain where the scepticism lies in that comment.

I feel the same as notnow and shelly. This thread has opened my eyes. The great thing about mumsnet is that you get insight into how others live. In everyday life I tend to mix only with people in similar circumstances to myself which has given me a narrow view. Mumsnet has widen my view of the world and I will be doing more to help others as a result of this thread.

And bloody well done to you Plomino - so many people would have just looked the other way.

My internet connection is not a luxury, it's an absolute necessity.
Firstly I get vastly preferential rates on my gas and electricity bills because I use online tariffs. The amount I save is much more than the £9.50 a month my broadband costs me.

Then there's prescriptions. Shopping. There are times when there is absolutely no way I can drag three autistic kids to the doctors' surgery to sort out their meds, so I do it online. Taking same three autistic kids to the supermarket? No thanks. Plus the fact all the local supermarkets are 'premium' - Waitrose, Sainsburys etc so if I wanted to use cheaper supermarkets I'd have to drive so getting home delivery is still cheaper than shopping locally.

Banking - can't really pop into the bank if the kids need me at home. Saves me getting 'bounced' charges if I can sort it out online.

I get all ds' special school communications electronically - I can communicate with three different schools via email which saves time and money compared with having to go to meetings in three different places.

I can also talk to other parents in my shoes which goes some way to making me feel less isolated.

Laptop was bought before we went on benefits by the way.

Hecubasdaughter, why don't you get full HB? You should be getting JSA for a couple, some CTC and CHB. JSA for a couple is £105. CHB £33 per week for two children. Even if you don't get CTC and can't get full HB, you should still have £138 to pay the HB top up, bills, food etc.

Is there something unusual about your situation. Have you been overpaid HB/TCs previously or similar?

If the HB have decided your rent is too high for the property, you're under occupying or not covered by the LHA, have you tried applying for a discretionary payment towards rent.

Sorry if you've answered this elsewhere, I couldn't see anything on this thread.

Re: the comments about internet that were made A line rental/calls/broadband package isn't much more than a line rental/calls package. The real cost of the internet is less than the monthly payment.

I'll also repeat what others have said, the internet isn't such a luxury these days. If you have school age children they need access. Yes libraries have internet, but they(local ones to us do) charge for more than the free 60 mins. Paying for an hour or two a week would soon add up.

Companies, employment agencies, schools, in fact nearly every where expects you to have internet access. That's the way society has moved, if you don't keep up you risk losing out.

SchoolsNightmare I wish I could print your post and glue it to my forehead!

I also think you should copy & paste it onto every crappy judgemental thread on here. May take some time but totally worth it

This morning my DD was drawing money for me because she wants to go swimming. She's only nearly four. I'm half laughing and half upset that she has this attitude of "I need to draw money for my mummy so she can take us to do stuff". I'll take them of course, and that might mean I'll scrimp on food to go. I don't want sympathy for that, I just want people who think poorness is due to fecklessness to see it and realise I am a mum who wants to do the best for my children, and at this moment in time it means being on benefits. The minute any opportunity came up to come off of benefits I'd take it.

I know that in terms of absolute poverty my children are very well off, they have access to doctors and medicine, education, home and water, heating and electricity, TV and consoles and DVDs and computers and toys. I'm never for one moment sorry for myself and thinking I have it worst off, because I am more than aware how much worse it can be. I just hate not being able to improve on anything, on being stuck here, and looking at a future where it's possibly all going to get harder. I will willingly give up other things as it becomes necessary to keep my children well and happy, but I want to be able to do more than just about cope.

My children are lucky that they are both bright, I hope that they make the best of their opportunities in education, and I try to encourage it by supplementing their education at home. I hope they get a brighter future than I see for myself at the moment.

The people I know in rl who cope ok on benefits are relatives, I am not speculating about neighbours who I dont really know anything about. Seems a fundamental question, why are some people ok and others not?

I was okay Wasabi up until very recently, things have slowly been getting harder.

A few unexpected expenses and some less than perfect decisions and I ended up struggling, mostly cash flow, some bank charges for missed DDs because of that, meaning things got tighter, health problems that have increased some costs here and there, and all of a sudden I find I can't pay the debt repayment plan any more.

Then you are getting harassed, you have to wait to get in to see the CAB for advice, you focus on paying essentials, like rent and gas and electric and food, more charges.

You budget like hell, start going without things to afford other things, scrabbling to keep up to avoid more charges, and costs are still going up. I'm following Money Saving Expert, have an appointment next week to go through things with CAB, shopping with a calculator, forgoing non-essentials, engaging in other services to try and get help, applying for extra benefits. It'll get sorted, but it's a slow process.

I think the answer Tilly is unofficial work not being declared. My friend (legitimately on benefits due to severe agoraphobia) sells on eBay to afford things like Xmas and also had a win on the lottery of £2000 not so long ago. None of this was declared (tbh I doubt it even entered her head to declare it). But on a positive note she is now learning to drive having bought a cheap car and it's doing wonders for her self confidence.

People generally don't think about declaring ad-hoc sales via eBay.

More definite deceit is the cash in hand work which is done regularly and goes undeclared.

I haven't read the whole thread, only bits. It makes me so sad. The thing that people with money don't grasp unless they have been on their uppers themselves is how expensive it is to be poor.

pre-pay meters v. monthly payment which is always cheaper
no car v. bus or walk to do shopping, limits what you can buy in one go, and small quantities are always expensive
can't take advantage of bulk offers in supermarkets because you have to budget weekly
... and so on. People who have never been in that situation just don't get it.

Selling your own stuff isn't 'earnings', Dalek. If she's buying to re-sell or selling things she's made, her profits should be declared to DWP and HMRC - but, even so, there are permitted thresholds.

I'm on ESA and have a level of permitted work. I do know one 'grey economy' scammer, I'm afraid but, as the DWP's own fraud team put the level at less than one claimant in a thousand, the problem is practically non-existent.