To be really upset to read on MN

[shootingstarz]

That parents are going without food because they can?t afford to feed their kids.

If people don't have ready access to the internet, TV and a simple mobile phone, they are as socially excluded as if they were locked in their homes for nearly all of the day, every day. They are no longer luxury items, and it is a societal expectation that these forms of communication are used. This is even more important for people in rural areas, where an operational payphone might be 10 miles away, bus fares to get to libraries might equate to a whole day's food budget, and where there is little community life to be part of.

Wha boffinmum said i couldnt put it better that that ,

I'd advise anybody on a low income to make sure they have internet access. They can potentially save much more than the cost of the line rental.

I think maybe subsidy at point of source could be a better answer. So those on low incomes could get free or subsidised internet, electricity etc and not have to pay this upfront.

sunshineandbooks

Has anyone entertained the idea that food vouchers are not much good if you can't afford the electricity to cook the ingredients?

That is true. I remember living off cous cous when I was younger, if i wanted a hot meal in winter, because it cooks so quickly.

I happen to love lentil dhal-type stuff, but the cooker is on a lot longer for stuff like that.

It was me who mentioned the magazine and the lottery ticket, and I categorically don't blame them.

As I have said many times over.

In 20 years' time (possibly less) internet will be a utility like water or electricity.

There will be no question of "getting connected", all houses will be wired up as a matter of course.

I would go further if I was in charge, and make a basic broadband package available at low cost to everyone, everywhere, along the lines of basic bank accounts, so you could email and order things online and so on, and use Skype. If people wanted faster speeds or multimedia download capability, then they could opt to pay more, but everyone should be able to access some sort of very simple £5 a month package, something like that. What would be done about the computer to access it from I don't know, but perhaps people could apply for loan computers from libraries if they were some distance away, like some areas do for OWL energy monitors.

It's a funny old country when a pensioner can get a free TV licence but we balk at doing the same for families in crisis.

And people questioning internet access and mobile phones, I need these items. I use the internet to shop, because there are times when I simply can't go shopping, I can't carry it home, or push the trolley round the shop, or load and unload the taxi. I buy everything online after price comparisons and getting cashback through Quidco/uSwitch. I access online support groups for my illnesses, I keep in touch with people through facebook, Skype etc, I have something to keep me occupied.

Mobile phone allows me to access help should I either get stuck somewhere in the house, the bath being a good example of one, or if I have a fall outside the house. It also allows me not to have to get up and down if the phone rings.

I am often almost completely housebound, I don't grudge people who have little else the internet or a basic mobile phone contract.

I can easily believe posters on this thread and am shocked at the ignorance/nastiness of those who insist they don't.

The point sunshine makes about food vouchers being dependent on electricity and free internet on transport is true of virtually everything - it's expensive to live off a very low income because you can't afford the infrastructure that would let you save. Someone posted about baking her own bread and so on, and I know that is much cheaper than buying a loaf - but you can only do it if you have an oven, and not if you only have a microwave (as lots of smaller rental properties seem to). If you don't have a freezer, or if the cost of bulk buying is too much all at once, you can't take advantage of that sort of thing.

I'm saying because I think I'm quite good at money saving tips, and I can plan loads of cheap meals, and so on - but that is no good at all if you are caught in the situation where you can't rely on a storecupboard full of bulk-buy pulses or a freezer with meat you got on offer.

Also - obviously no-one on this thread is in this situation, but there's sizeable number of people who've been failed by our education system and got to adulthood without learning to read properly or add up properly. It is really not easy if you are in that situation and it's plain ignorant to ignore the fact that there are people in our society who really struggle for more complex reasons than just that they're all buying fags or too lazy to budget.

Income Support might be the least amount of money the government thinks that people can live on but it's only ever going to be day to day living.

There's no way anyone living on benefits can build a rainy day fund that covers them when an appliance breaks or they need to get a taxi to the hospital.
Food and petrol prices have soared in the last 5 years, benefits haven't gone up by more than a few pounds so the poverty gap has exploded. Even if you don't have a car, petrol prices still affect you because bus fares are so expensive and other prices increase due to haulage costs. I live in a big village, 5 miles from the nearest city. The supermarkets are all out of town so would need 2 buses from here to get to and the bus fare is £2 for a single fare.

People shouldnt feel the need to justify what they spend their money on tbh asking about mobile phones and internet is patronising , mobile phones and internet are a necessity for everybody these days , as somebody else said way back when it was colour tvs and videos the poor were crucified for having ,

I have to say, I've never in my life had a TV license and have gone long periods without a mobile phone, but then I am an anti-social sod.

More to the point, I am able-bodied and live in a city, so it's not hard for me to get personal contact.

I would really be interested to know what effect on depression being so cut off would have if you were, for example, a new mother with no support system or a person who couldn't easily leave the house.

*Oh I'm sorry my comment came out wrong. I meant that people may be accessing Mumsnet at their local library for free, not "wasting" their money on phones/internet as seemed to be implied by other posters. I claim JSA and if it wasn't for my family I'd be up shit creek without a paddle.

Exactly the point a lot of us are making, Doomcats.

Here is my crisis diet, £35 a week for a family of four, which is about as cheaply as you can eat healthily in a normal domestic situation, i.e. no mates with huge allotments, no access to anything except bog standard supermarkets for buying food, small to medium amount of storage, no money to stock up in advance, etc.

Sometimes its choice and sometimes its circumstance. What about people who sign up for things on credit and then have a change in circumstances but are committed into an expensive monthly contract?

The times me and dp go without proper meals aren't that much of a big deal to us its just a sign of the times I think! We save a little bit of money each month for christmas and birthday presents for the kids and for our very cheap holiday flights. I'm lucky my parents have a home abroad that jet2 fly to. I would never break into this money as I'd rather miss a few meals and still go on holiday.

And it's all very well giving food vouchers, but it removes the freedom from me if I know I have a bill coming up to cut back and eat very, very cheaply so that I can afford to pay it. I try to find a happy medium between keeping bills paid and eating healthily, so I prefer to have that choice, if I want to eat toast and beans for a week so that I have an extra tenner for something I need, then I will do that, if you say I have to eat healthily and only get food vouchers, then I might not be able to pay an electricity, and then I can't cook that lovely food that's been provided.

Yes, I know Boffin, I was agreeing, just pondering how completely useless it is to use myself as a yardstick for what other people should do - which I think is a general problem on this thread.

Stranded: I haven't read the whole thread so apologies if this has been said: but you should be being assessed as an independent student I.e they will NOT take account of your parents earnings because you have dc. You should therefore be entitled to maintenance grant etc too. Please please contact them regarding this - i know the system inside out, what you're getting is wrong. Have you actually applied for childcare?

i can imagine that it is these families that the pay day loan companies are preying upon.

times are tough for both working and non working families - rising heating and energy costs, fuel costs, food costs....there isn't much you can cut out as if you work you still need your car or childcare costs.

we have to budget very carefully each month but fortunately haven't got so bad that we have gone without food but sometimes just have to make cheap meals like sausage beans and mash

treats like takeaways are rare and any clothes i buy are for the kids (cheap makes like george, primark...i take all hand me downs when they are offered)...we never buy new clothes for ourselves. any spare cash usually end up going on new tyres, new washing machine or essential home repairs

Just to add, I am not justifying where I spend my money, I am trying to illuminate people on why certain things might be. It's hard to imagine, even as a person who has been on benefits for almost five years, people being in poverty, unless you see and experience it yourself. I want people to understand that it's not just bad management, or overspending on luxuries that gets you there.

I also think food vouchers are an impractical and expensive way of dealing with the problem. I would be more inclined to work on getting these families discounts on fresh food from retailers like Asda and so on (like Change4Life), via coupon booklets, possibly negotiating special discount or loyalty cards for them at supermarkets, to save a further 5-10% on basic groceries, and also running free courses in public spaces such as libraries, supermarkets and community centres on feeding your family on very little.

And yet the Government believes the only way to lift children out of poverty is to give them better opportunities for the future. I've heard two discussions on the Today programme this week where they have said they don't believe using the welfare system should be used to alleviate child poverty.

Surely you have to approach it from both angles. Future opportunities aren't going to feed children, and their parents, today are they?

There but the grace of god and all that ... anyone can last a few months on little money, but it's doing it over a really long period of time that takes its toll.

The truth is you need all of this, it needs to be be joined up. Decent food today and opportunities tomorrow.