To be starting to regret sending DD to a CofE school?

[clarabellabunting]

My DD goes to a CofE school which is basically just an old village school but affiliated to the local church as a lot of schools like that are. Despite being non-religious, DH and I sent her there quite happily thinking there would be no problem with her learning religious stories as they tend to be fairly harmless and generally have good morals to them. In the same way that small children are told about Father Christmas, etc.

However, today on the way to school DD asked me about how the world was made. I began to explain to her about the Big Bang from my somewhat rusty memory of the subject. But DD got quite upset and annoyed at me, shouting "Why are you telling me things that aren't true?!" and insisting that God made the universe. She mentioned the Dinosaurs and I tried to bring up the theory of evolution but received a similar response. She then started to insist "I am God's helper" and told me to stop telling her things that aren't true. I tried to tell her that being God's helper was fine, and suggest that God could have started the Big Bang and the process of Evolution but she wasn't having any of it.

DD is in Year 1, so will be turning six soon, by the way.

So... while I knew that there would be some religious aspect to her education, AIBU to think that her school are not handling this very well if the result is a confused and upset child at the mere mention of the Big Bang and Evolution? Perhaps Year 1 is too young to begin to tackle complicated scientific subjects but the sense of certainty I got from DD that 'God made us' and 'God made the world' was something I found a bit worrying.

I was under the impression that the CofE was OK with the concepts of the Big Bang and Evolution in general so I can't see why that can't be part of any teaching they do about the origins of life and the universe (if that is what they're teaching - Yr 1, does seem a bit young for discussion about this topic).

DD was never christened, we have never attended any church, and on all the forms etc. when she started school I put that we were of 'no religion'. However, she has come home saying that she is a Christian and that they teacher has told them that they are all Christians...

I know I'll get replies saying that I shouldn't have sent her to a CofE school if I didn't want this, etc. but is that really what the CofE is? I'm pretty sure it isn't all about creationism and denial of evolution etc.

And is it fair to handle the teaching this way when the catchment is the whole village and there really is no other choice of school? If there were a Jewish family in the village and they put on the forms etc. when starting school that they were Jewish, would their child come home saying they had been told by the teacher that they were Christian?

I wouldn't worry too much. Most of the children that age that I know have been taught about god making the universe and us. The big bang and evolution are quite complex for a 6yo! I think all schools have to teach about god-it's on the nc as we're a Christian country. and rightly so

I am not sure that yabu but it is a difficult one. It sounds similar to my DD school. We also have lots of Jesus discussions and such like. I usually answer all her questions on these types of topics by saying...some people believe X, some people believe Y ....it is up to you to make your mind up. This usually keeps her happy. In this way I feel my daughter gets a balanced view. To my mind the benefits of the CofE school in other areas (it is a good school) outweigh this issue.

If you are really concerned you could maybe approach the headmaster to find out how they present certain topics but I think you need to accept that christianity will come along with the school so it might be up to you to provide the balance. Could it be your daughter is taking a literal view and actually the school are not ramming creationism down their throats - for a 6 year old Adam and Eve is probably a lot easier to understand that big bang and it may have been presented as a story but she has taken it as gospel (if you excuse the pun).

Also I do not think this education will have a lasting effect- kids are in school for a small proportion of their time- if you provide balance I think it will be fine and your child will have a range of views to choose from.

She's 6. I think you're expecting a bit too much in terms of scientific grasp. It's a CofE school and ahe's ib year 1. It'll be fine'

Your story sounds a little bit too dramatic to be believable, but assuming you are on the level - the school are not the ones responsible for your child's "confusion and upset". You will need to handle that one yourself.

My DD is a bit of a drama queen and very argumentative. I assure you this did indeed happen as described this morning.

I guess I assumed that Bible stories would be presented to children where they could be used to demonstrate a good moral. eg. be nice to people, forgive people, help others, etc.

I can't really see the benefit of telling children as a fact that God made the universe and Adam and Eve and all that. Especially when this isn't what the CofE generally believes - they accept evolution etc. and treat Adam and Eve as a bit of parable or something don't they?

This sounds a bit far fetched imo.

Just saying.

OP, there was a good thread running earlier in the week about a child saying grace at school. It was a good debate, maybe you should take a few moments to read through it.

Personally I'm done to death on this subject.

Over and out.

It's a C of E school, they will teach your child in accordance with what they believe, yes. If she's to continue there, you will have to accept this. Religious beliefs are not actually based on proven fact.

Hm if you're that bothered talk to the school. However, at that age I would imagine she's probably taken what they've told her and twisted it a bit, iyswim. Their imaginations are so vivid at that age, and as you say she's a bit of a drama queen - I wouldn't worry too much.

But the teachers, if they are CofE, won't literally believe that, will they?

I'd just go along with it and let her believe what she wants to believe. You just need to point out that not everyone believes what her teachers do, and that's ok too.

My ds is at a CofE school, and they talk about God a reasonable amount. He has decided he doesn't believe since learning about evolution at school, despite the fact that I do believe in God. And that's fine, I'm happy for him to make up his own mind based on what he hes learned, he is free to change his mind if he wants.

This doesn't sound inplausible to me, but just a child insisting on something, aged 6, which you know isn't right (in your mind). This happens to us all the time, they tend to be very believing of the teacher as the authority and see you as silly mummy and daddy who don't get stuff.

But at this age, confusion over 'facts' and misinterpreting what the teacher said is really normal. We had a similar discussion recently over whether you needed a mummy and a daddy to make a baby, and our 6 year old would not have it that you do(!) as one of her friends has told her she doesn't have a daddy and that's that (of course, the child means she doesn't have a daddy in her life, not that biologically she doesn't have a daddy).

There's no point in trying to reason with a dramatic six year old about the theory of creation or whether God made the world. I believed lots of very odd things that turned out not to be true til I was really quite old. I wouldn't get het up about it, but equally, if you want her to stay in a CoE school, they will talk about God, and will talk about Adam and Eve or Noah, and there's a chance she will get hold of the wrong end of the stick and beat you with it.

This is a developmental stage thing to me.

my year 1 is at a c of e school and she is now the most religious zealot I have ever come across. All three of mine fervently believed at this age! She actually cried when she found out that Daddy didnt believe in God! It is a phase, it will pass and actually i find it kind of sweet and thoughtful that she is thinking so hard about things.

I went to a CofE school, I'm 23 now so relatively recently, and was taught creationism as fact. As a child I believed it all because I thought that teachers know everything but I'm an atheist now and have been since later on in primary school. You need to make sure that you balance things at home, yes Christians believe this, I believe this and other religions believe this. She will make up her own mind at some point and I don't see this affecting the views that she has in the long-term. Try to see it as how you, presumably, tell her that the Easter bunny is real now but you know that she will grow up and be able to use her own rational to mind to decide in the future whether she will continue to believe or not.

That was the only analogy I could think of, I'm not actually trying to say that being a Christian is the same ad believing in the Easter bunny!

I suppose a lot of this is down to the type of annoying child I have.

You are right, Mumsyblouse, it does sound like what you say is happening. She is very keen on trying to prove Mummy and Daddy are wrong based on what her teachers have supposedly said.

And I am taking at face value that what she's saying has actually happened.

But would a CofE teacher tell her class that they are all Christians regardless of the children's actual religion of lack thereof?

And since most of the CofE doesn't believe in literal Biblical creationism, why do they teach it to small children as if it's a fact?

Laughably far fetched story!

It's this bit really OP

But DD got quite upset and annoyed at me, shouting "Why are you telling me things that aren't true?!

It's got the ding dong of bullshit bells ringing out loud!

Yes, obladi we have so far found DD's 'christianity' quite sweet. The first signs of it were when she was in reception year, she started shouting "Baby Jesus!" when jumping from a big height (kind of like you'd shout Geronimo!).

I was brought up CofE, and I'm sure I was taught that Adam and Eve, 7 days of creation etc are parables to explain an underlying concept, God created everything, but that this isn't incompatible with Evolution, age of the universe etc. Believing that Genesis is literal truth isn't, as far as I am aware, an article of faith for the CofE (i.e. an obligatory belief).

PS I might have been older when we went into all this - can't remember now - probably wasn't when I was 6!

aw! I encourage dds to be honest, we read bible stories etc as I know she will grow out of it, and maybe she wont and there's nothing wrong with that really.

Well, LentillyFart, you have not met my stroppy 6 year old. She started crying yesterday because I took the lid off the toothpaste when she wanted to do it.

a little boy told her god didn't exist during RE lessons and she was really really upset! I said that god existed to HER which was the main thing.

Yes, roseum that's what I thought.

I suppose that's why I expected them to be taught Bible stuff alongside something like the basic scientific facts. It would be quite easy to explain how God 'made' the universe with a Big Bang. And how he 'made' people by evolution.

God is much easier to get your head around than evolution at this age. Also much more cuddly and human centred (appeals to girls).

As an atheist, I'd say don't worry too much. At a similar age, my brother was convinced that my Dad 'used to be an acrobatic man' and would get very upset if challenged!

I was raised in a strict Christian household. As a small child, I was taught that God created the world. When I was older, I was taught about the Big Bang and evolution and told the difference between literal truth (science) and allegorical truth (nice stories that reveal 'truths' to us about our relationship with God, our humanity, etc).

Being Christian does not equal being Creationist - this is a fairly recent, American invention.