To be starting to regret sending DD to a CofE school?

[clarabellabunting]

My DD goes to a CofE school which is basically just an old village school but affiliated to the local church as a lot of schools like that are. Despite being non-religious, DH and I sent her there quite happily thinking there would be no problem with her learning religious stories as they tend to be fairly harmless and generally have good morals to them. In the same way that small children are told about Father Christmas, etc.

However, today on the way to school DD asked me about how the world was made. I began to explain to her about the Big Bang from my somewhat rusty memory of the subject. But DD got quite upset and annoyed at me, shouting "Why are you telling me things that aren't true?!" and insisting that God made the universe. She mentioned the Dinosaurs and I tried to bring up the theory of evolution but received a similar response. She then started to insist "I am God's helper" and told me to stop telling her things that aren't true. I tried to tell her that being God's helper was fine, and suggest that God could have started the Big Bang and the process of Evolution but she wasn't having any of it.

DD is in Year 1, so will be turning six soon, by the way.

So... while I knew that there would be some religious aspect to her education, AIBU to think that her school are not handling this very well if the result is a confused and upset child at the mere mention of the Big Bang and Evolution? Perhaps Year 1 is too young to begin to tackle complicated scientific subjects but the sense of certainty I got from DD that 'God made us' and 'God made the world' was something I found a bit worrying.

I was under the impression that the CofE was OK with the concepts of the Big Bang and Evolution in general so I can't see why that can't be part of any teaching they do about the origins of life and the universe (if that is what they're teaching - Yr 1, does seem a bit young for discussion about this topic).

DD was never christened, we have never attended any church, and on all the forms etc. when she started school I put that we were of 'no religion'. However, she has come home saying that she is a Christian and that they teacher has told them that they are all Christians...

I know I'll get replies saying that I shouldn't have sent her to a CofE school if I didn't want this, etc. but is that really what the CofE is? I'm pretty sure it isn't all about creationism and denial of evolution etc.

And is it fair to handle the teaching this way when the catchment is the whole village and there really is no other choice of school? If there were a Jewish family in the village and they put on the forms etc. when starting school that they were Jewish, would their child come home saying they had been told by the teacher that they were Christian?

I got told that evolution is scientifically impossible. At a mainstream primary school. It's a bloody disgrace.

We're atheists, and introduced fairly early that there is no god, the world was created in the big bang, etc. They all 'got' the basic idea of evolution no problem. So when they encountered Christianity in school, they met it with the scepticism I'd hoped they would.

I think sometimes people are atheists a bit by default, or agnostics, or just don't bother with religion. So when it comes up with the DC, esp the first, it can be a shock. I think you should just spell out your views to her, whatever they may be. The Walking With... BBC series is brilliant for teaching evolution, for example.

My DC may well grow up to be religious, but it shouldn't be for lack of me teaching them my own strongly held belief system, in humanism. Then they go their own way!

YABVU why did you send your child to the school? My DD goes to a catholic school, i am perfectly happy that my DD comes home and talks about jesus and being part of something. I get sick to my stomach of all the bloody alpha mummies at the school complaining that their children are tought this

Im not an especially religious person, but i chose this school because i wanted my child to grow up in a loving, caring environment and that she knows about God.

I went to the same school, im now a biologist with a very good grasp of evoluntionary bioloy actually. I can no more get my head around the big bang theory than i can the thought of some sort of sentient being creating it all. In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't actually matter how the world came around we aren't ever going to know. I don't think quantum physics even begins to explain it. So whilst some people might think religion is a "fairy story for grownups" No phycisist has ever persuaded me to take their line on things. So i have to content myself with not knowing how i am, but knowing that i am, and thats quite enough for my simple brain thankyou very much.

Yes, my DDs is the best school in the area, i believe this is BECAUSE of the religious aspect of it, not because that is where all the middle class alpha parents choose to send their children to the school.

DiscoDaisy - point taken

I am perfectly happy that parents who do not believe in God send their children to a church school, but to then complain about them being taught about God beggars belief really. I assume they are intelligent people? or did they just sweep the religion aside in favour of the ofsted report......

I can see it now

Our father, who art in OFSTED
Hallowed be thy SATs results...........

Goawaybob, didn't you notice that alot of us are saying we have no choice?

Goawaybob, there are no non-religious state schools. They all have at least some element of Christianity. It's not like atheists can simply choose an atheist school.

Goaway - what lurking said.

no, i didnt notice that, and i did wonder if someone was going to say - i suppose if it were that bigger problem for me i would move, because i would move to get my DD into the right school if i possibly could.

I just dont see what the problem is, they are at primary school FFS they don't NEED to know about the fucking big bang (that probalby didnt even happen anyway - they are busy trying to turn relativity on its head just now so im sure the big bang will fall out of fashion soon enough), when they go to secondary school they will be taught about evolution (i learnt this at secondary school - a CATHOLIC one), and about the big bang theory, but it is so complicated that it woudlnt even be able to begin to be covered in any real depth until A level anyway, at least.

Your children are not being damaged by learning about God, and how to live in peace and harmony with other people, do not project your fears ont them, its a bit sad, not to mention hypocritical

My eldest DD went to a state school - they were taught all religions at a very low level. Surely if you are an atheist, you have no belief but surely you wouldnt object to your child learning about Christianity, Islam, hinduism, just the same as they learn about the stars and the planets? just the same as they learn about napoleon

would I object to my child being told- as I was in secondary school- that the Bible says that women go through childbirth as a punishment from God- YES!

Conchita the Bible says that?

Goawaybob where did I complain about my DD being taught about God?

I said I was quite happy for her to be taught Bible stories etc. as they are a good source of moral lessons. And I have found her talking about God quite sweet really overall since she started school.

My only problem was that she seems to have been taught a very literal version of Biblical creation as if it is fact with no mention of Big Bang, evolution etc. to the point that she got quite upset and annoyed at me for mentioning them as an alternative view.

And I questioned the fact that teachers automatically classified and labelled their pupils as Christian when quite a few will not be. It is afterall a village school and we don't really have any other choice in our area.

I am at a loss to which parts of my original post you drew upon in your comment above:
"YABVU why did you send your child to the school? My DD goes to a catholic school, i am perfectly happy that my DD comes home and talks about jesus and being part of something. I get sick to my stomach of all the bloody alpha mummies at the school complaining that their children are tought [sic] this"

some Christians will be more knowledgable on this but I believe the King James version is 'I will increase you in your labours and your groanings'. I also think there is dispute as to whether this was intended by the original Hebrew but our teacher did not tell us that. In fairness he was the teacher who told us to see those parts of the OT as allegorical not the other one who said it was the word of God

Mine have gone through 2 state primaries. At both they were taught religion as a sort of culture/RE class (this is Christianity, this is Islam), and also had weekly assemblies featuring prayers and hymns or religious sing-songs. Also the one-offs like nativity plays and Easter celebrations (both religious in nature).

State primaries are supposed to have assemblies each week which are broadly Christian in nature. They don't all do it - but it can be challenging to move next door to one that doesn't!

I think as a religious person who had the happy opportunity to send her child to a school that reflected your religious beliefs, you might have some sympathy for those of us who do not have that opportunity.

I do not mind my children being taught that plenty of people believe in God, so long as they're not taught that God is fact. Which is very much what they were taught.

*ie I am not a Christian so limited knowledge

Clara - im sorry, that last paragraph wasnt really aimed at you, more of my own personal vent about my DDs school really. As that is very much the theme at the school just now - pisses me right off. So i apologise if i come over as a bit strong.

Having had one child go through state school and anotther through catholic schooling, i have no problem with my DDs science being a bit off kilter at primary - they WILL get sciencegrounding, but really, you just dont need your head muddled with the big bang theory when you are six. Having just taken a keen interest in quantum physics at the age of 41 my mind is fuddled, i think its buncum

You don't need it muddled with talk of men in the sky making the world and having to be christened, either.

Conchita - FWIW I attended catholic primary and secondary schools and was definitely told at some point that labour pain & childbirth were a punishment from God to Eve and the daughters of Eve for her transgression in the Garden of Eden.

Primary is a great age to teach them about the origins of the universe.

Goawaybob - what do you think is the best answer for a 5/6 year old asking about the origins of life, the universe, etc.?

God did it? Or we don't know? Or some mixture of Big Bang/Abiogenesis/Evolution?

Schools are legally obliged to teach scientific principals, all my d s we t to c of e schools and were never confused like this but she's still only 6.

Clara, be quite vague, like when explaining how babies are made.

It all sounds like fairy stories to children, that's the point. Why should they believe your fairy story about explosions, monkeys and dinosaurs over the one their God-like omnipotent teacher told them (if indeed she presented it as fact, which I highly doubt)?

I don't find it a far fetched story at all OP. Your DD sounds lovely, so dramatic and sensitive! Anyway, I understand just what you mean. I teach in a C of E school but am not religious myself. To make things even more interesting I teach most of the RE in the infant school. I actually love teaching it, I find it fascinating. I teach stories from different religions and we learn about the various customs and practices of them too. I always make sure that I say "Christians believe that etc etc or Jewish people believe that ....." however, the children are only little and so it may well be that they take some of what I say as "gospel" and miss the other part of the message if you will pardon the pun!

Can I just point out to posters who wo see why non believers send their children to faith schools?, catchment! My catchment first and middle schools are c of E so we had no choice in the matter.